The Vine with Joe & Katie Devine
Welcome to "The Vine" with Joe and Katie Devine, where we embark on a journey through the twists and turns of life, love, and faith in our formative twenties. Join us as we candidly share our triumphs, trials, and everything in between, inviting you into our world of learning and growing together. Through heartfelt conversations, we navigate the complexities of marriage, relationships, and spirituality, reflecting on our missteps and milestones with humility and grace.
As branches of the same divine Vine, we embrace the power of community and the guidance of faith, aiming to inspire and uplift our listeners as we collectively journey toward greater understanding and connection. Welcome to a space where vulnerability meets wisdom and where, together, we discover the beauty of being intertwined in the vine of life.
The Vine with Joe & Katie Devine
Count the Fruit: August Gospel Reflections
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We catch up on real-life highs and lows, then slow down to reflect on a string of August Gospel readings that keep asking one question: will we trust Jesus with what we have and where we are. From parenting distractions at Mass to Peter’s doubts and a mother’s relentless prayer, we look for the kind of faith that keeps showing up even when it feels messy.
• dreaming about future podcast guests and what it would take to host them well
• parenting at Mass and learning to worship with divided attention
• peak and pit stories, anxiety before big moments and relief when things work out
• Jesus’ heart moved with pity and how empathy grows through suffering
• offering five loaves and two fish, then letting God multiply what we bring
• Peter walking on water, getting distracted, and learning not to quit after sinking
• the Canaanite woman’s persistence and the power of intercessory prayer
• praying with gratitude and trusting God’s answer before we see it
• “Who do you say that I am?” and the difference between knowing Jesus and naming him
• taking up your cross and the true cost of love
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Welcome Back And Dream Guests
SPEAKER_04Hello, hello.
SPEAKER_00Hello, everyone.
SPEAKER_04I'm Katie.
SPEAKER_00I'm Joe.
SPEAKER_04Welcome to the Vine.
SPEAKER_00Welcome back, everyone.
SPEAKER_04We are back.
SPEAKER_00We're guestless.
SPEAKER_04Guestless? Oh, guest guestless as in there are no guests. There are no guests. I was like, guestless? What's the guest list?
SPEAKER_00Who's our guest list? Um, we have a dream guest list at the top. We have Father Mike.
SPEAKER_04Ooh, that would be.
SPEAKER_00You want to talk about blowing up the podcast.
SPEAKER_04If we have Father Mike on here, then we gotta do something about these wires. We need to do And maybe not be in a guest bedroom.
SPEAKER_00We have a lot of work to do if we want to get Father Mike on. That um Doug Took, we love Doug.
SPEAKER_04Ooh, yeah. That's more realistic. We could maybe maybe one day.
SPEAKER_00Maybe one day we could get Doug on.
SPEAKER_04But then we definitely need to not have a broken tripod.
SPEAKER_00That's also true. Um, there's another one that would be fun.
SPEAKER_04If you want to be a guest, I make really nice little um guest baskets.
SPEAKER_00She does make good guest baskets and she makes good sourdough bread. We gave some bread to our neighbor Steve.
SPEAKER_04I will pay you in bread and um a public guest basket.
SPEAKER_00A public's gift basket.
SPEAKER_04With your favorite wine. I got you.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
Parenting At Mass And Divided Focus
SPEAKER_04Anyways, we are back and it's been a long time since we've done, not a long time, like two months, since we've done a count the fruit book.
SPEAKER_00A long time in our recording time.
SPEAKER_04Yes. Our summer has just been so busy, but I've missed doing this. I I I could tell like we didn't do it last month because I had no idea what was happening. I couldn't even tell you like what the gospel readings were because as we were literally just talking about, when you go to mass as a parent, you're just like not paying attention in the same way. Like you're worshiping differently, but you're not paying attention and retaining the same kind of information.
SPEAKER_00You just literally you're just you have divided focus. Like there's no other way to like you cannot when you have a toddler, especially like we see so many families at our church that have multiple children. Yeah. Like you just it's almost impossible to actually sit down, listen to the gospel, listen to the homily. You can still be worshiping, you're still involved in the mass, but it's showing up, that's all that matters. But it's you're not going to be able to get everything out of the scripture because you're busy, and then you're like or you're not busy, but you're you have divided attentions. And then we're also saying that one of the things I'm bad at is when I go into the Narthex or the lobby when with MJ, and if one of my friends are there, well then we're just we're all just chatting. We're just yapping in the back. You can't help yourself.
SPEAKER_04You love a good yap.
SPEAKER_00I do love a good yap.
SPEAKER_04So um but this episode was nice to prepare for because it really forced me to like look back on the all the gospel reflections and like really just like take something from it. And so I like that this, you know, we're getting back into it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, we're getting we're getting back into it. Well, and uh, I think we talked about this, but growing up, we would go to a Bible study at my mom's house. Yeah, and they would always go over the Sunday readings. It was every Wednesday at my mom's house. They would and she did it for shout out to the beginning of our relationship. I know, it's the beginning of our relationship. Um and she would I mean she did it for what, like almost 20 years, I think.
SPEAKER_02I have no idea. She did it for a long time. Somebody fact check him.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean it was at least 15 years because there was like she always called it like her phases of people, and like that's how she would get to know all these different you know things and know people. It was very special, but it was also like a way for us growing up, like to dive into the readings because like also guess who's not great at paying attention in mass? A 17-year-old, right? Like, I wasn't I wasn't dialed in at all times, especially on a Sunday when I'm like, okay, we're at 10:30 Mass, Ravens games at one. Like how we play.
SPEAKER_04My butt's sweating.
SPEAKER_00It's okay, out me, out me. Um, we've already had to start re-recording once, so Katie's out strike one. I'm teasing, I'm teasing. Um but yes, probably that was the case, especially if I was sitting next to you and I was anxious. Couldn't even tell. Probably not paying attention to me if there was a Ravens game. Dark pants, that's why you wear dark pants.
Peaks And Pits With Real Life Stress
SPEAKER_00Um so anyway, peaks and pits.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, let's get into it.
SPEAKER_00Your turn. I will I will go first. So my peak and pit are tied, actually. So I last this past week um was going golfing with some customers, and I was very nervous about it because I'm not a very good golfer, and by not a very good golfer, I mean I'm bad. Like I imagine I'm not the most fun person to play with. And I always play with like I probably play golf two or three times a year, and I always play with some of my very close friends who are good and don't care, like they don't care like that I'm you know, not even that I'm slow because I'm I try to be respectful of that, but like that I'm hitting bad shots and like maybe I want to drop somewhere and I'm not really keeping my own score because I'm just trying to hit good shots every now and then. And like my friends, that's totally fine, they don't care. But I was playing with uh somebody that I'm trying to gain as a potential customer, and I was like, if I go out there and look like an absolute idiot, this is not gonna go well. Um, and so I was nervous about it because they're it's a really big opportunity. I wanted to like show them a good time, like that's why they these guys um had mentioned that you know they would be interested in golfing, and I was like, okay, that's what they want. Like, I'm much better at a dinner setting than on the golf course, but you know what? Like, I'll I'll make the sacrifice, take me to the bar. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Um but it was so my pit was I was really anxious about it. I was going to the driving range and like trying to at least be you know passable. Um, but my peak was also that it ended up going great. And I played terrible and it didn't matter. Um and we had the uh they brought uh an additional person with them who worked for the company that was actually these guys' manager. He hadn't played golf in like four years, so like it wasn't a big issue. Um and then the guy I rode with, who was by far the best golfer, was super nice. I'm actually gonna probably send him a link to the podcast because I was talking to him about it. Um but what was really cool.
SPEAKER_04Send him this specific podcast so I can say hello, guy.
SPEAKER_00Yes, hello, his his name's Duncan. Hi, Duncan.
SPEAKER_03Hello, Duncan.
SPEAKER_00Um that was really cool was you know, he was just asking me about my career path, and I mentioned that in college I was a youth minister, and that was like why I was open to going into HR and a lot of these different things. And he's like, Oh, what he was like, what faith or what you know church were you a youth minister at? I was like, oh, a Catholic church. And he was like, nice, I love that. And then he we just proceeded to talk a little bit more. Turns out he's in the process of like coming back to the faith. He was born and raised Catholic, he like had the sacraments, but um, you know, he'd mentioned that he was kind of falling away, not had it fallen away, but just was starting to take it a lot more seriously, and that's really cool. Um and just something about that was like reassuring to me, and I was like, hey, no matter what comes out of this meeting, at least I was able to talk to somebody like you know, I want to send him some churches and stuff like that that he can maybe you know reach out to and and if there's a community there. Um, but it was just an answer prayer there, and then the meeting afterwards ended up going really well. So like it went from my pit to my peak, which was really cool. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04You were nervous. I've like never seen you nervous before something like that before.
SPEAKER_00I I presentations don't make me really nervous. I'm not really nervous to go into most account meetings and stuff like that, but I was just I don't know, something I was psyching myself out. I was like, I'm gonna go out there and like hit somebody in the head with my golf club. Like, I don't even know what's gonna happen. Like, this is gonna go really poorly. Um But I'm also used to playing with people who are really good, and I forget that most people aren't quite that good. Like, there's most people are on the spectrum of golfers, like pretty average, pretty average compared to a lot of times the people I play with are shooting in like the the mid-70s, which can be frustrating.
SPEAKER_04So there's my peak in butt that's all typical Joe fashion. I feel like you handle stuff like that very well.
SPEAKER_00It worked out. I was my butt was sweaty though. Oh and it was hot as well.
SPEAKER_04That's how you know it's an important occasion. That's true, that's true. Okay, I think a peak that has been my peak, I feel like for the last couple of weeks, I have been loving crashing my friend's like lunch hour, like during the week. Oh, yeah. Every single day. First of all, I'm just like really owning the last minute planning stage that I'm in. Like, I couldn't, I couldn't tell you if I could hang out with you in two weeks because I just like never know what the day is gonna look like. But I will text you the night before or the morning of. And if you can't do it, not a big deal. Like, I'm not, it's not gonna hurt my feelings if you say no. But if you can, then like awesome because like I'm ready to get out of the house typically. Um, and every single day that I've been home alone with her, we've like managed to find somebody or something to do. And like when I can see somebody in the middle of the day and have lunch and like go to their house and like watch our like babies play, it has just honestly given me so much life. Like I've loved, I mean, I've loved like the socializing aspect too. Like, these are people that like I never really got to see often because they had little kids, and like I know now that when you have little kids, like your days are just so erratic. But like now that we can kind of bond in that way, like I feel like I'm getting to catch up with a lot of friends that like I never really had the chance to before.
SPEAKER_00Well, that's good.
SPEAKER_04And so this has been a really special like thing for me, and it's been fun like watching MJ play, watching MJ play with the f the babies. And listen, if I uh text you and like we hang out, you bet I will bring a coffee, I will make you bread, I will do something in exchange. Because chances are like MJ's like tearing up your room or hitting your child. Abusing your child, most likely or eating your food. So I will bring the treats.
SPEAKER_00We I feel like we have taught her to be an aggressive child without like realizing it. Like Katie.
SPEAKER_04We just like are very love aggressive.
SPEAKER_00Well, and like I like like tapping her and like poking her and like messing with her, and I think that she does the same. Like, yes, now she it's like the same thing with our dogs. I push our dogs, and then our dogs always just like slap us because that's what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, they punch us back. My um my mom would always say, or my mom and my grandma would always say, like, oh my gosh, like you just give me the giggles, and like what that means is I will literally shake you, I love you so much. Like, just like you just like You're my everything can't express how much you love somebody, and like that's what we would say, like, Oh, you've got I've got the giggles. Anyways, so that has been just like really fun. My pit though, I have recently accepted. I was in denial for a while, but I have accepted that I now have a sourdough intolerance.
SPEAKER_00That's true. That is really devastating for you.
SPEAKER_04I don't know if it's just like my starter. I haven't ventured out into other sourdoughs.
SPEAKER_00And we have had that starter for a long time.
SPEAKER_04Maybe I need to get a new starter, but every time I make it, other people eat it. I am the only one that has issues with it. Like, it has just been upsetting my tummies.
SPEAKER_00Our neighbors had no issues.
SPEAKER_04Nobody has you don't have issues with it. I did not start having this like intolerance until I was pregnant, and I thought it was just a pregnant thing, and now like, you know, we're far past that, and I'm still like it is still really upsetting my tummy.
SPEAKER_00I think when you're getting older too, you just like sometimes you just wake up one morning and it's like, all right, well, this doesn't work anymore.
SPEAKER_04Well, that's what I like. I feel like this year has been the revelation of things I can no longer do. Dairy. Like dairy, dairies I've decided has been making me break out, but I love cheese, I love ice cream, I love all things.
SPEAKER_00You love milk. We used to buy would drink It was just the two of us, and we would buy the three gallons of A2 milk from Costco, and I would buy like every two weeks.
unknownI know.
SPEAKER_04And then um and now the sourdough. So I'm just I'm a little bit bummed that my bones.
SPEAKER_00Bones were so strong.
SPEAKER_04No, they're gonna just break, they're gonna be so brittle.
SPEAKER_00Will that happen? Don't like women when they get older like that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it is common for women, which is why they recommend women do like weight-bearing exercises. But I have been heavy on the weight-bearing exercises lately. So maybe we're balancing out. I don't know. It's just been really sad, but yeah, that's my peak intent.
SPEAKER_00I'm just devastated, but that's I really am broken. Never never to recover.
SPEAKER_04Anyways, yeah. Shall we get into it?
SPEAKER_00Yes, we shall. It
Feeding The Five Thousand And Empathy
SPEAKER_00would if I was a good podcast, I've had I would have it ready. Matthew 8.2. Well, not Matthew 8.2. This is the gospel for August 2nd, Matthew 14, 13 through 21. Um Let's go. When Jesus sorry, I was I had a notification and then it was like in the way. When Jesus heard of the death of John the Baptist, he withdrew in a boat to a deserted place by himself. The crowds heard of this and followed him on foot to their from their towns. When he disembarked and saw the vast crowd, his heart was moved with pity for them, and he cured their sick and he cured their sick. When it was evening, the disciples approached him and said, This is a deserted place, and it's already late. Dismiss the crowd so that they can go to the villages and buy food for themselves. Jesus said to them, There is no need for them to go away. Give them some food yourselves. But they said to him, Five loaves and two fish are all we have. Then he said, Bring them here to me, and he ordered the crowds to sit down on the grass. Taking the five loaves and the two fish, and looking up to heaven, he said the blessing, broke the loaves, and gave them to the disciples, who in turn gave them to the crowds. They all ate and were satisfied, and they picked up the fragments left over, twelve wicker baskets full. Those who ate were about five thousand men, not counting women and children.
SPEAKER_04Do you have any first thoughts?
SPEAKER_00That that's Katie's way of saying I'm putting my thoughts together.
SPEAKER_04I have a thought.
SPEAKER_00I know I'm teasing, I'm teasing.
SPEAKER_04Well, fine, since he put me on the spot, I will share my thought first. The first thing that comes to mind every time I read this is that phrase where he says, um, his heart was moved with pity.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And I just feel like the way that I am really walking with Jesus these days is like resonating with these feelings of suffering or joy or empathy is a big one. And to me, that phrase is like the epitome of empathizing for somebody. Like my heart is moved when I see this person suffering or struggling or going through this thing. Like that feeling of like your heart shifting, I feel like is a very holy feeling.
SPEAKER_00I agree with that, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Um, and I just think that that's how Jesus looks at us all the time. Like his heart is constantly moved for us and wanting to give us these things. And so I don't know, I feel like I've noticed that a lot in myself lately is especially now, I feel like I notice the families at church. Like I notice the families with three or four kids that are like really just doing their best and like trying to herd the whole of their kids and reigning them in and taking them in and out and doing all these things that these are things I never noticed before, nor was I ever bothered by it. Yeah. But now I feel like I noticed it in a way that my heart is moved for them and with them. And so I just feel like that is like a gift to be able to relate to Jesus in that way. Like it feels like a holy movement in my heart.
SPEAKER_00Now, do you feel like you relate with that now because you have children?
SPEAKER_04I mean, obviously, yeah, which I think is where the empath I'm able to better empathize for them because I understand now just how much work they are putting in.
SPEAKER_00So why do you think what made Jesus empathize with them in that in that moment? About like I'm just thinking about so something the difference between sympathy and empathy is sympathy is, you know, oh I'm so sorry for you. And empathy is I understand your loss. Yeah. Right. And I'm curious, like part of what I've always forget about this um gospel reading is that G John the this is what Jesus did when John the Baptist died. So he heard his cousin, his someone he loved so dearly, was you know murdered and has died, has died. Um he was murdered, right? I think he was beheaded, right? I think so. Yeah. Um we know scripture. Um fact checked. Yeah. Um, but like his response was to go off and people followed him. And I wonder if because he was in you know again, Jesus was completely human, if he was in an a heightened emotional state that he was moved to pity them. But I'm just like I I wonder what it was that in particular struck him.
SPEAKER_04Moved him.
SPEAKER_00But I wonder if too, if a piece of it was while, you know, m maybe they were dealing with a sickness or with a possession or whatever it may be, he was already in that state of I'm also hurting right now. And with when you know the people that were flocking to Jesus at that moment were people who were hurting, you know, it was people who were sick, they were he was literally trying to not distance himself, but he was going away to kind of deal with his own emotions. But in doing so, when he saw so many people who were coming to him for that, he said, Well, I'm I'm so moved with with empath empathy for you. Yeah. I don't know.
SPEAKER_04I didn't even think about like John recently dying having a big I I completely had forgotten about it until we just read it. Yeah. I didn't even think well, even reading it now, I didn't think that that could contextualize this and like, you know, exactly what Jesus was going through emotionally, because that would make a lot of sense. Like from a human perspective, if that is at the forefront of his mind, then naturally he's gonna feel more moved towards other people struggling. But and then from like a uh divine perspective or God perspective, like I do feel like he says from our divine perspective, from yeah, no no no, uh a much more elevated divine perspective. Um I do feel like God is just constantly calling us to not be in a helpless state, but to need him. And all these people that were coming up to Jesus were very much in a in a desperate like this is this is all I got kind of state of mind. And I think that Jesus is like that is just what he's like moved toward, that's what he's drawn towards, is the heart and the soul that is like ready and willing to surrender.
SPEAKER_00It's just hard, like when it's hard to deny people when somebody's coming to you asking for help. Yes, and and more so is it hard when you do have the ability to help them, you know, and I think that's being a new parent, this is one of the things that's I know that I'm going to struggle with as MJ gets older because when and how do you decide to help them? You know, and I'm sure Jesus went through the same thing over and over and over again with you know people he's ministering to and and people he performed miracles to, and it's the same, you know, kind of conundrum that I feel like God is is struggling with, um, or not struggles with, but has to God is not struggling. You know, I don't I don't know what the what the word is, but it's the the back and forth of when you care for someone, sometimes helping them is not helping them. You know, like we're gonna have to let MJ learn how to do things, and and some of those things she's gonna have to learn to do by failing and by hurting and by us not helping.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah, that's definitely like we think it's hard now because in my head I'm like, well, it's hard because she can't tell us what she needs, but will she ever really be able to tell us what he she needs? Like even when she's communicating, she doesn't know what she needs. She might say she needs this, but she might need this.
SPEAKER_00Like it's sometimes at 30 she might not be able to.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it's this constant, like that's why I think that there's peace in recognizing, like, okay, well, we don't really have to have all the answers. Like at that point, the only person that knows what she needs is Jesus. And at that point, we just have to trust him. Um, but I wanted to pivot a little bit because uh the last half of this gospel, um the the crowd said all they have is five loaves and two fish. That's all we have. And so I just I feel like we were just talking about this, and I guess it could kind of relate to what we were talking about. Like we only know so much as humans, and um we only have so much. And I feel like um when we were talking to Allie the other day, it's like it's okay to like have these standards and expectations for what you want in life and offering that up to Jesus and like kind of offering all that you have, but leaving space for him to give you more. Um, and I'm just like I feel like I kind of just word vomited there, but what I'm trying to say is offering what you have and trusting like Jesus will give you more. All they've had was five loaves or five fish and two loaves. And Jesus provided um what did he say?
SPEAKER_00He took twelve wicker baskets left over.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah, there it is, 12 wicker baskets full. And I just love that because I just feel like it reinforces what we were talking about the other day. Like, leave room for God to give you more than you could ever imagine you wanted.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Um I completely agree.
SPEAKER_04And I think that just kind of honed in on that. And I don't know, it was just a good reminder, Faf.
SPEAKER_00Anyways, it's a good reminder.
SPEAKER_04It is a good reminder. That was the first gospel, and we will. We'll dive into the second gospel.
Peter Walks On Water Then Doubts
SPEAKER_04Second gospel. So the second Sunday of August, which was August 9th, Matthew 14, 22 through 33. After he fed the people, Jesus made the disciples get into the boat and proceed him to the other side, while he dismissed the crowds. After doing so, he went up on the mountain by himself to pray. When it was evening he was there alone. Meanwhile, the boat already a few miles offshore was being tossed about by the waves, for the wind was against it. During the fourth watch of the night he came toward them talking on the sea. When the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were terrified. It's a ghost, they said, and they cried out in fear. At once Jesus spoke to them, Take courage, it is I, do not be afraid. Peter said to him in reply, Lord, if it is you, command me to come to you on the water. He said, Come. Peter got out of the boat and began to walk on the water toward Jesus. But when he saw how strong the wind was, he became frightened, and beginning to sink, he cried out, Lord, save me. Immediately Jesus stretched out his hand and caught Peter and said to him, O you of little faith, why did you doubt? After they got into the boat, the wind died down. Those who were in the boat did him homage, saying, Truly you are the Son of God.
SPEAKER_00I didn't uh again, another thing, like when we read the Gospels kind of in succession, you realize that the some of the themes that are being put forth kind of for the month or you know, over the the next couple weeks, and it's funny Peter is gonna be featured again in the Gospels. Um so it's this is a little bit of like a shout out to Peter for the month of August, which I love Peter, my confirmation saint. Um but I I think this is when you tie it back to the the previous gospel, again it's this idea of you we have our set expectations of what we think God is going to provide for us without actually understanding that he has the ability to give us so much more, right? So the expectation is Peter would not be able to walk on water. But when he actually gets on there, he's like, Oh my gosh, I'm literally walking on water, and he doesn't allow for the and then the you know the the waves and the wind crash on him and he's terrified because he doesn't think that God can protect him from that.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00When in reality, all God has done and Jesus has done is shown him I am so much greater than than you could realize. Same thing. You have to send people out to get food because you know we're not going to be able to provide for them. Well, I can provide for them. Well, we only have five loaves and and two fishes. Uh perfect. Great, that's plenty.
SPEAKER_03That's all we need. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00That's more than enough. And you know, that's the the idea of opening ourselves up and trusting that there is more to come.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. I just love that like this is a very scary scene. Very scary. The idea. And maybe it's because we just watched Odysseus.
SPEAKER_00Odysseus.
SPEAKER_04That's what I'm thinking in my head. Like, that's how I'm imagining like the scene. Yeah. It's all like the crazy storms at sea. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00He's on his Odyssey. He's gone.
SPEAKER_04And man, like, I just feel like something like this is really encouraging to me, especially when I feel like my own life is kind of spiraling around me. Like my routine isn't working, which is not anything compared to like a boat already being tossed about by the waves and like about to sink. Like, nothing compared to that. But I do feel like we all have moments of feeling like, oh my gosh, like my boat is sinking.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's true.
SPEAKER_04My boat is sinking. And I don't know. I just I I think it's funny because it emphasizes in this gospel, like the boat was being tossed about by the waves, for the wind was against it. And then it says, like this the wind was so strong he became frightened and began to sink. Like these things, like none of the things happening around him really added up to like this is like gonna be a really good and holy moment. Like it was scary, and anybody who's naturally human would want to run or cower or hide, and instead, Jesus is like, trust me. Um and I don't know, I I think I can be such a coward in moments like that. Like I want to cling to the things that feel safe and comfortable, and I don't feel like I do a very good job of trusting him, yeah. Yeah, yeah, and and and I love too that like Peter did try, like he got out of the boat, and in the midst of actively trying to trust Jesus, something caught his eye and then he sunk. Which I feel like isn't to ridicule us, like, oh gosh, like look at what happens when you like get distracted.
SPEAKER_00Silly Peter.
SPEAKER_04I think it's a more of a reminder, like hey, this is probably going to happen to you. You're gonna probably get off the boat and tr try your best to show up and trust Jesus, and you're gonna probably fall again, and that's okay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, a hundred percent. And the that's why I love Peter and why he's my confirmation saint, because the only person that really stands in Peter's way, time and time again, is Peter. Yeah. And he Peter always is willing to make that first step and that first jump, but it's that it's the sometimes with with Peter, it's the action following his big words and what he wants to do, but he he, you know, sometimes his follow-up isn't great. And that's where I feel a kinship with Peter a lot of the times, is like I feel personally like I'm happy to to be out there and to say those things, but sometimes my own follow-up in my own spiritual life or in my own, you know, prayer time or or anywhere, even in my professional life, I feel like sometimes that's where I'm you know, I have no problem saying, Oh sure, yeah, but then I forget that follow-up, the storms come, and sometimes I don't trust my own initial intuition.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I I also think that while Peter was the only one who got out of the boat, we all do have a natural inclination to want to to grow and to push more and to be better. And that is what Peter wants, but the it that comes at a cost always, whether you're even whether you're doing it, you know, whether you're working out, whether you're doing it in your professional career, whether you're doing it in your faith, in order to grow, there is a cost. There's always gonna and cost is probably has a negative connotation, but I can't think of anything different. Like you have to pay something. Something is going whether that price is, it's gonna be challenging, or you have to give up time, you have to give up something. You can it's not gonna be easy. Yeah, it's not gonna be easy. Yeah. Yeah. Might be simple, but it's not gonna be easy.
SPEAKER_03We're probably gonna overcomplicate it. Yeah. Oh, next verse.
The Canaanite Woman And Persistent Prayer
SPEAKER_00816 uh is the date. The gospel is Matthew 15, 21 through 28. I don't think these are all Matthew, though, the first three have been. I think today was um John, maybe. We'll find out shortly.
SPEAKER_03Should be there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's here. Anyway, uh Matthew again fifteen, twenty-one through twenty-eight. At that time Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and City, Sidon, and behold, a Canaanite woman of that district came and called out, Have pity on me, Lord, son of David, my daughter is tormented by a demon. But Jesus did not say a word in answer to her. Jesus' disciples came and asked him, Send her away, for she keeps calling out after us. He said in reply, I was only sent I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. But the woman came and did Jesus homage, saying, Lord, help me. He said in reply, It is not right to take the food of the children and throw it to the dogs. She said, Please, Lord, for even the dogs eat the scraps that fall from the table of their masters. Then Jesus said to her in reply, O woman, great is your faith, let it be done, for as you wish. The woman and the woman's daughter was healed from that hour. This is a tough one.
SPEAKER_04Oh, Katie requires the I wrote notes, guys, so I need to look at my notes.
SPEAKER_00I I like this verse, and I I'm not gonna remember the homily because shocker, when we uh were at church, MJ was requiring us taking her in and out. Um but I do remember hearing this gospel in particular at Mass, and um I believe the deacon gave the homily this uh at that at our church that time. Um and he just spoke about how while this verse can seem a little disconcerting that Jesus is is turning this woman away, um when you again if you kind of follow through with it, it's the it's that through line again of she did what Peter didn't follow through. Yeah, you know, she said, I I I just trust you. I trust that at some point you will you will take care of me.
SPEAKER_03No matter and I will keep asking.
SPEAKER_00Yes, and and I will keep asking, and that's a big thing, you know. Peter did not keep asking, you know, eventually he had to say, Lord save me, and Jesus did, but Peter wasn't trusting in God, wasn't following that light anymore. This woman was, you know.
SPEAKER_04I think that's the biggest thing I took away was the persistence of prayer and like how that was really admirable in her because gosh, if like somebody said that to me, I'd be like, Okay, fine, like I'll move on. Like, I guess it's a hopeless cause like case, like she's never gonna be saved. And I think I get discouraged like that a lot these days. Like I need a lot of like validation, like, oh like God will give it to you, like just keep praying, keep praying. And like when the things don't add up or the things aren't necessarily lining up the way that I want them to, then I kind of just give up. And she like didn't. And I do think that God does like there is a a lesson in persistence of our prayers to him, like that is pleasing to him, not because he's just trying to like, you know, like hold a piece of steak in front of us, like hee hee, look like, but you can't have it yet, you gotta keep asking. Like, I don't think that's at all what it is doing. I think that in a way the persistence is preparing our heart to receive whatever the answer to that prayer is. Yeah. Um, and something that I've been trying to do a lot lately um when I'm praying the rosary is the fifth decade of the rosary. The intention has been in gratitude and thanksgiving for already answering all the prayers that I've requested.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And I'm trying really hard to get into the habit of like thanking God because I know he's gonna answer those prayers, even though I don't know how he's going to. And I do feel like it's shifted my perspective a lot. And I think that that's something she was already good at. Like you said, she already knew that he was gonna answer her prayer, and she was persistent in her request. And I feel like I could learn a lot from that, and I I do see the the fruit of the persistence and just already acknowledging, like, okay, like thank you, thank you for answering my prayers. I know they don't see it yet, but I like I I am grateful.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, and this is the it kind of goes in a family of some of the other gospels, maybe like the Good Samaritan story of the woman at the well. Um there are a few others I can't think of off the top of my head, but where Jesus is also showing in this gospel that his his love, his saving grace is not just for a chosen people. It is well, it is for a chosen people. However, anyone can become a member of the of the chosen people, right? Of the chosen race, where it's no longer just the 12 tribes of Israel that can be saved, you know, the the 144,000 or whatever it is. It's it's everybody, you know, everybody who is you know accepts him and continues to believe that he is the one who has the way to you know to salvation. He is the way, the truth, and the light. Like if you believe that, you are now a member of the chosen people. Um her actions also, you know, we've talked about it till we're blue in the face about you know, in different podcasts about works versus faith, but again, her her belief led to action, and those things could can't be uh separated, you know, they're they're deeply, deeply intertwined for her.
SPEAKER_04Yes. I also feel like it's a good reminder of the power of prayer for other people. Like her her daughter, what was wrong with her daughter again?
SPEAKER_00I think she's just dying. I don't know. When she's sick from what everybody's sick from in that age.
SPEAKER_04Hold on, hold on. I can't.
SPEAKER_00Probably like scurvy.
SPEAKER_04Tormented by a demon.
SPEAKER_00Oh, that's worse. That's worse than scurvy.
SPEAKER_04Um, it just shows the power of prayer. Like, don't give up on the people you love. This was her own daughter, but I'm sure everybody has a friend, a family member, or something that they feel like they've lost hope in. Like, oh, they're never gonna get back on path, whatever it is that they're struggling with. Don't stop praying for them. Like be persistent in offering them up to the Lord and trusting that God will save them. And I think, especially when you love somebody so much, you want to control every aspect of like how they're helped and how you help them. But if what you are called to do in that moment is to let go, then let go and like trust God and pray. Like, pray until you are blue in the face. Like, yeah, like don't give up because he will follow through with it.
SPEAKER_00It seems like uh an interesting theme is just that idea of don't be afraid to continue to go to Christ for help. Yes, and to bring people that you need because more will be given than you could possibly imagine.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yep. Love that theme. That's a good theme. Wonder who came up with that?
SPEAKER_00Was that you?
SPEAKER_04I know. I'm taking credit for it, but maybe Okay.
SPEAKER_00You wrote some of those gospels, you put them Didn't you know? Yeah, good thing.
SPEAKER_04Okay, this was the gospel for August 23rd.
Keys To The Kingdom And Knowing Jesus
SPEAKER_00That's today.
SPEAKER_04That is today. Um, Matthew 16, 13 through 20. Jesus went into the region of Caesarea, Philippi, and he asked his disciples, sorry who do people say that the Son of Man is? They replied, Some say John the Baptist, others Elijah, still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets. He said to them, But who do you say that I am? Simon Peter said in reply, You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God. Jesus said to him in reply, Blessed are you, Simon, son of Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father, and so I say to you, You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gaps of the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Then he strictly ordered his disciples to tell no one that he was the Christ.
SPEAKER_00I'm gonna absolutely steal some of the homily, because today you had the baby in Darth. So I was listening, and Father Longeknecker had a very interesting homily. So the Old Testament reading that we had today is the precursor to this gospel. So it was Isaiah, and there was a steward of the kingdom, and he was passing the keys on to I can't remember people's names. It's all the you know strange Old Testament names. Nobody in the Old Testament's name is like I wish you guys could see MJ is sleeping, and we we have one dog in with us, and Oliver is outside. Oliver just did like a small little bark, and Katie's freaked out. I always have a penny. Katie's response. Um, but now Lucy's just stretching in the room. Um but the you know, it's an old testament name, I can't remember, but basically it's the the passing of the keys of the steward of heaven. And so this the stewards of a you know ancient kingdoms used to literally hold all the keys. So these um, you know, these people would wear a sash with all these keys on it, and then they would pass it on to somebody else who could then hold all the keys to protect the kingdom, and they could act in the steed of the king. And this reading precursors what Jesus says to Peter and is meant to be a fulfillment kind of of that reading where Jesus gives the those keys to heaven to Peter, who then can pass it along. And I just I think that's a a really interesting um like way for us to think about you know how that succession of you know the apostolic succession actually happens. The other thing that he talked that Father Longenecker spoke about that was really interesting. So the region they were in is Caesar Philippi, which is um a town and a region named after Julius Caesar, the mortal emperor and uh the son of Herod the Great, um, who was also a king. So it was meant it was a city named in honor of those two people who were the mortal rulers at that time, and like Caesar even considered himself a god. Um and it was also a pagan temple to Pan, the the um the pagan god Pan, which I think is also maybe the a Greek god as well, but it's the little half goat, half man guy. Um interesting choice for a god. Was it's also like kind of considered a small symbol of the devil, and in this city, which was erected as these pillars of kind of pagan and cultural social temples, is where Christ puts his own pillar down. This is where he gives you know, Peter, you are the rock that I will build, uh build my church on. And I thought that was really interesting.
SPEAKER_04That is really interesting. I feel like Father Longencker always has like these really cool historical. I don't even know if that's like he just knows a lot.
SPEAKER_00It's the context. It's the context of everything because we've all heard these stories before. We've heard the we've heard the verse, you know, Peter.
SPEAKER_04But like where is it coming from? Why is it significant that that is the choice of words that they're using?
SPEAKER_00Why are these details in the scripture?
SPEAKER_04And it's so cool that the details are all important. Yes. Like you can dive into everything, even the language, the translation. Like it's just that that's definitely something I wish like somebody could explain to me and sit down because it all just goes over my head.
SPEAKER_00I think it's I mean, people study their entire lives for it and are still uncovering, you know, these different like I was thinking actually about how you know, if we have this podcast for many, many more years to come, we're gonna go over the same readings, but we're gonna have different perspective life experiences. Like when we would do that CLI camp, we had the same readings every year.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But it was so interesting to have different conversations with small groups every year.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Oh, I miss that.
SPEAKER_00I miss it all. I mean, listen, you know, I'd go back in a heartbeat.
SPEAKER_04Um, I think I was really struck just by the question. Who do you like who do so he asked two separate questions? Who do people say that I am and who do you say that I am? And I realized like there's a difference between recognizing Jesus and knowing Jesus. And I feel like he's really honing in on the difference between the two. Like, but do you really know me? You might know my name. You might think I'm important because people say I'm important, and then people start, you know, like if you were to ask, I mean, you could ask anybody these days, like who Jesus is, they would know. They'd be like, Oh, he's like, I guess, like the savior of the Christians.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Or he's like that, you know, the Messiah or whatever, or he's like people from everywhere, every background could probably tell you and give you some kind of idea of who he is. Um, but do they know him? No. I feel like it's easier to say, like, okay, somebody who's not practicing and not a practicing Christian would be able to say this is who he is, but no, clearly they don't know him. But I think what I was really struck by is I think that I do that too. Like, yeah, if you were to ask me and you know, we're not having some faith-based conversation or it's just like I'm feeling uncomfortable, whatever, like I would I would kind of brush it off and just be like, oh, he's just, you know, this guy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04But like I think those are the moments that are really testing because it's like this is an opportunity to share that I I do know him, and I think it makes me question like in those moments, like how confident and comfortable I am sharing my relationship with Jesus.
SPEAKER_00Well, and I think that's he says, Who do you say that I am? Not asking who you think I am, but when you say means when you're talking to other people.
SPEAKER_04What do you say?
SPEAKER_00What do you say about me? What were you going to say? And if you know, if somebody were to ask you, tell me about, you know, who do you say Mary Jo is, you're not just gonna say she's my daughter. You're gonna talk about her, you're gonna talk about what she has meant to you. Yes. And it's the same thing. Jesus wants to know from them, okay, sure, you're gonna say that you followed a guy named Jesus Christ or named Jesus of Nazareth, but who am I to you? Who am I to you? Who do you say when other people are asking you what I have meant to you? Yes, what are you going to say?
SPEAKER_04For sure. Yeah, and and I think that I if I'm being candid, like I get a little uncomfortable, especially if I know if I don't know who I'm really talking to that well. Yeah, I'm quick to just kind of brush it off and not want to dive deeper. But like why? You know, like if they're asking, then that's a really great opportunity.
SPEAKER_00It's a great opportunity.
SPEAKER_04Not to like not to convert them or not to like defend myself, but to literally if you love somebody and there's an opportunity to talk about like when patients want me to talk about my husband, like I I just like yap about you. It's like why is why is that not the same reaction that I get when people ask me to talk about it?
SPEAKER_00Because I think we're afraid to overstep on people's boundaries, but I I mean you're not oftentimes when you people have gone a step too far, a lot of times. When they start talking about Jesus, because they do so in a method where they want to convert the person that they're talking to. That can be your desire, but what you need to say is, here's what he's done in my life. Yeah. Right? It's the same way when, you know, our mothers try and set people up that we know with different people, and like, and that's we have a million different versions of this, but you know, they they start talking about who that person is, but they're not necessarily saying like, and you have to go on a date with this person right now. Yeah. You know, they're just trying to to set the table and say the groundwork of like, hey, here is this person and how they've affected my life.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_00Last one.
SPEAKER_04Last gospel.
Take Up Your Cross And The Cost
SPEAKER_00This is on August August 30th. Uh Matthew 16, 21 through 27. Oh, these were all Matthew. Interesting. Um, Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer greatly from the elders, the chief priests and the scribes, and be killed on the third day and be raised. Then Peter took Jesus aside and began to rebuke him. God forbid, Lord, no such thing sorry, that's funny. He's like, Jesus, forbid, Jesus. Uh no such thing shall ever happen to you. He turned to Peter and said, Get behind me, Satan. You are an obstacle to me. You are thinking not as God does, but as human beings do. Then Jesus said to his disciples, Whoever wishes to come after me must deny himself, take up his cross and follow me, for whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever wishes to lose his life for my sake will find it. What profit would there be for one to gain the whole world and forfeit his life? Or what can one give in exchange for his life? For the Son of Man will come with his angels in his father's glory, and then he will repay all according to his conduct. You have a note in here. This is where we learn the true cost of love.
SPEAKER_04Thank you for reading my note. I was about to be like, I don't know what I find out.
SPEAKER_00There you go, there's your note.
SPEAKER_04Yes, that is my note.
SPEAKER_00I think another Peter, man. Peter, here he is. Peter just got the keys to the kingdom that he's getting yelled at.
SPEAKER_04You know, it's funny because you were talking about Matthew. I was um this author that I like, Hannah Bruncher, was sharing on her Instagram about how this time of year she reads all of the Gospels, like just the Gospels, up until November, because of how busy like the season gets, and it's like a reminder for her to like slow down and like remember, you know, the true reason behind all these seasons. So I just think it's funny. She's she's also reading Matthew. She's not Catholic.
SPEAKER_00Good for her.
SPEAKER_04But it's her time of year to read Matthew.
SPEAKER_00It's her time of year. It's her time of the year. She's reading the gospels again.
SPEAKER_04Anyways. Um, I think I wrote that down, which um learning, what did I say?
SPEAKER_00Learning the true cost of love.
SPEAKER_04The true cost of love. I wrote that down because it just goes emphasizing this idea of taking up your cross. And I feel like we've gotten a snippet of what that has meant a lot lately in our lives, our family lives. And it's just astonishing to me, like it was hard, like it's hard to carry your cross, whatever that looks like, whether it's illness or severed relationships or who knows what. Like you name it. If you were struggling with it, it is your cross to bear. Um it's hard to do that, but I feel like we've had several stages already where we're coming across coming out of it, and we can see the fruit of carrying the cross and like what that has meant and not letting it like I feel like there's two two different avenues you can go down when you're carrying a cross or life is struggling. You can either run, drop it and run, yeah, and not like fully confront it, or carry it all the way and like see the fruit, you know, see who's waiting for you at the other side, you know, like or see who's carrying it with you through it. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00Like I just footprints in the sand.
SPEAKER_04And I just feel like our family has done a really, really good job recently in these seasons of life carrying that cross together. And like I've seen the struggle, and I just I don't know, I I feel like I'm being really vague because I don't want to share too much, but I do feel like we're seeing the fruits of carrying that cross together.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and that's in both our families, interestingly enough, in in every and I think that's the when you are surrounded by people who believe the same things and want the same things, it's easier to band together in that.
SPEAKER_04But it doesn't make us or anyone who have those same moral values or believe in these same things, it doesn't make you exempt from the struggle.
SPEAKER_00No.
SPEAKER_04And I I don't know.
SPEAKER_00I just think that Christians or not having it also doesn't invalidate your struggles either.
SPEAKER_04Exactly. Yes. I just I'm just I feel like I what I'm really trying to say is I really admire people who carry their cross well. You know, like you know that they're struggling and you know it's a really hard time, but like they are doing it with like joy and grace and like trust.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And that's what we're called to do. Amen. Lay down that life. Yes, sir. Um I forget, we don't do a marriage meeting on the We do a prayer.
SPEAKER_04I was thinking we could do the um Mother Teresa I Thirst.
SPEAKER_00Of course I know that prayer by heart. I'm definitely not looking it up.
SPEAKER_04Yes. I don't know it by heart either. That was your prompt. That was me cueing you to look it up.
SPEAKER_00I'm looking it up as we speak. Uh Teresa This was fun though. This was a good one.
SPEAKER_04It was a very nice, like cool calm collected. Um cool calm collected. I don't know about that. But it was It was just nice to chat.
SPEAKER_00Wait, that's a it's a letter, I thirst.
SPEAKER_04Or maybe it's the do-it-anyway poem.
SPEAKER_00Do it anyway.
SPEAKER_04That one's a good one.
SPEAKER_00That is a good one. It's attributed to her, I think. I don't know if she it was like made famous, I think, by her. I don't know. I love it. It makes me sometimes it makes me emotional.
SPEAKER_03Uh-oh.
SPEAKER_00I know. I might even cry when we read it.
SPEAKER_03Buckle up, people.
SPEAKER_00That's right.
SPEAKER_03Emotional roller coaster Joe.
Do It Anyway Prayer And Closing
SPEAKER_00In the name of the Father, and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen. People are often unreasonable, irrational, and self-centered. Forgive them anyway. If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish ulterior motives. Be kind anyway. If you are successful, you will win some unfaithful friends and some genuine enemies. Succeed anyway. If you are honest and sincere, people may deceive you. Be honest and sincere anyway. What you spend years creating, others could destroy overnight. Create anyway. If you find serenity and happiness, some may be jealous. Be happy anyway. The good you do today will often be forgotten. Do good anyway. Give the best you have, and it will never be enough. Give your best anyway. In the final analysis, it's between you and God. It was never between you and them, anyway.
SPEAKER_04Amen. Amen. He did, in fact, get emotional. That's right. He's crying.
SPEAKER_00Glassy eyes. I'm not crying. The eyes are just a little glassy.
SPEAKER_04Well, guys, thank you for listening. We really, really just love this community. Even if it's like friends that we already talked to who are listening, it's just, I don't know, it's a really safe space for us.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, share the podcast with somebody.
SPEAKER_04Katie hates to say it, but share the podcast. And as always, let's keep growing growing together.
SPEAKER_00Bye, y'all.
SPEAKER_04Bye.