The Vine with Joe & Katie Devine
Welcome to "The Vine" with Joe and Katie Devine, where we embark on a journey through the twists and turns of life, love, and faith in our formative twenties. Join us as we candidly share our triumphs, trials, and everything in between, inviting you into our world of learning and growing together. Through heartfelt conversations, we navigate the complexities of marriage, relationships, and spirituality, reflecting on our missteps and milestones with humility and grace.
As branches of the same divine Vine, we embrace the power of community and the guidance of faith, aiming to inspire and uplift our listeners as we collectively journey toward greater understanding and connection. Welcome to a space where vulnerability meets wisdom and where, together, we discover the beauty of being intertwined in the vine of life.
The Vine with Joe & Katie Devine
Count The Fruit: June Gospel Reflections
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
We trade quick peaks and pits from family life, then move into June Gospel reflections that hit the Eucharist, evangelization, fear, and what it looks like to live faith with action. With Deacon Dad at the mic, we wrestle honestly with belief versus senses and land on a simple goal: let Christ shape what we do, say, and choose.
• peak and pit updates from travel, sickness, newborn sleep, and grandparent life
• John 6 and Corpus Christi as the clearest defense of the Eucharist
• faith beyond the five senses and trusting the mystery of the Real Presence
• why starting point matters: believing Jesus is God before debating details
• the harvest is abundant and the laborers are few as a baptismal calling
• evangelization through love for the people right in front of us
• fear as a force that divides relationships and hardens the heart
• media, rhetoric, and how fear spreads through communities
• Matthew 10 and living unafraid while still making hard choices
• faith and works as a shared path: receiving Christ and acting like it
• carrying the yoke with Jesus as active participation
• Divine Mercy closing prayer through Saint Faustina for Mary Jo and for more laborers
And as always, keep growing together.
An exclusive from Dery Media Podcasts. Explore diverse perspectives and enrich your knowledge at derymedia.com. Telling stories that matter, sparking meaningful discussions.
Meet The Hosts And Peak Pit
SPEAKER_02Hello. Hello. Ooh, that was weird. I don't even know if they can hear you. Talk.
SPEAKER_00Hello, hello. Hi guys. I'm Katie.
SPEAKER_02And I'm Joe.
SPEAKER_01And I'm Dad.
SPEAKER_02Oh. We are joined yet again.
SPEAKER_00And welcome to the Vine.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah. Welcome to the Vine. We're joined yet again by Deacon Dad. Hello, Deacon Dad.
SPEAKER_00Thank you for coming back, Dad.
SPEAKER_01This vine has no thorns. Thank you so much. Oh, no thorns on the vine.
SPEAKER_00Very poetic.
SPEAKER_01Do we have thorns? Most vines have thorns.
SPEAKER_00Not this one. You heard it here first, folks.
SPEAKER_01Not this one. Not this one.
SPEAKER_00Um, well, Dad, thank you for joining us. As you know, since you've been here before, we always start the podcast with a little peak and pit session. Do you remember what that is?
SPEAKER_01The peak and pit session?
SPEAKER_00I shouldn't have asked. Peak and pit. So we just talk about like the highs and lows of the past few weeks. Um and we just, I mean, it could be something simple or it could be like something really significant or really silly. So really, it's anything, anything that made you happy and anything that, you know, was maybe a low for you the last couple weeks. So, Joe, would you like to go first?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I'll go first. Um, so I'll say I mean we're all gonna have the same peak, so I will do a different one. Um while I was while you guys were clearly here in Saluda for a little while. Um, while you guys were here for one day, I got to go home and I was able to do some work work, and I was also able to deep clean our house, and that was really nice to be able to deep clean the house, and like we're gonna be gone for a little while, so it's nice we're gonna come back to like a clean house, and that just made me very happy. So, well, I missed you guys dearly.
SPEAKER_00Uh no, he did not.
SPEAKER_02Um, I did, but I it was nice to be able to do that, and you know, it's nice to be in your house when there's no chaos and you can kind of control what's going on. Pit. Um, MJ's still not sleeping great. That's my pit. That one night was awful. That was my pit.
SPEAKER_00I think that was just because we it was the first night. So, for context, the reason that dad is on this podcast is because we're visiting my parents in Saluda, and so the first night that we were here, I think she was just a little bit all out of whack. I'm not really sure where she was. But um, okay, I will go next. My peak was so yesterday we invited some like family friends over, and it was really nice. Like my childhood friend that I think I I met her when I was like three years old. Um, she came up and hung out with us, Megan. Hello, Megan, she probably doesn't listen. But she came up and hung out with us like the whole day, and then our again our across the street neighbors came up. Um, and Grace brought her baby, and so it was just really, really nice to see.
SPEAKER_02Let's swim in the pool.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah, we have a little um blow-up kitty pool, and Mary Jo and her baby got to spend some time in the pool and like meet each other, and yeah, that was like a fun little surprise. It was like not planned, really. It was like the day before I think we reached out to everybody, and um, so it was nice that everyone could come and it was just a pleasant little surprise. Um, a pit, which I don't think I shared this last time we had a podcast, because it has been a minute, but I got like so sick a couple weeks ago, like really just uncalled for and just truly not fair. I feel like I always get sick in the house, like you never get sick. Obviously, Mary Joe gets sick because she's a baby, but I feel like I always get hit the worst. She had like a 24-hour virus and a fever and was just not feeling good, but she was pretty good after like a day, and then I got a fever at work, and then I went home early, and I was like down bad for the whole weekend. And I mean, I like was so cold and feverish that it made me sad, and I just felt like a little baby.
SPEAKER_02You said you had a 100, like I was talking to you over the phone when you first got sick, and you said you had a 10 100.4 fever. I thought you said you had a 104 fever, and I was like, why are you at work right now? Why don't you go like to the emergency room?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean it felt like I had a 104 fever. I I just haven't had a fever in a long time, and so that that was just not fun. No, but yeah, that's my peak and pit. All right, Dad, have you been thinking?
SPEAKER_01I try not to think.
SPEAKER_00Well, you're gonna have to think a little hard because you're being put on the spot. We gave you a microphone.
SPEAKER_01I'm so nervous. Can you tell?
SPEAKER_00I cannot tell. All right, what's the case?
SPEAKER_01So my peak, my peak is has something to do with my granddaughter.
SPEAKER_00Something to do with her.
SPEAKER_01Because she's also my pit. She's both my peak and my pit. Because she's my peak when she looks at me and smiles and laughs, and she's my pit when she looks at me and she cries and gets scared. And all happens at the same time. It does. But you know what? That's okay.
SPEAKER_00She's a roller coaster of emotions, just like she's not a roller coaster of emotions.
SPEAKER_01She knows she knows what she's doing. Probably. Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00No worries. You've been a girl dad your whole life. Now you just have another girl. You should know what you're doing.
SPEAKER_01It's been a while. I've sort of forgot what it was like to be a dad.
SPEAKER_00Well, you're still a dad.
SPEAKER_01I don't know. You guys are gone now.
SPEAKER_02It's it's it's new having the newborn back in the house, right? Oh, yeah. When everything's a death trap, that's what we're also learning right now. Like, nothing in our house is babyproof. So we're learning like everything on the floor is dangerous, all the mirrors, pictures, everything is just something that could fall on her and hurt her. And of course, like that's what she's most interested in right now is all the things that could possibly hurt her.
SPEAKER_01But and life goes on.
SPEAKER_02I know, I know. She'll survive somehow, right, Katie?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, first it's corners and paint and popsicles and yeah, you don't know if it's like lead-based painting.
SPEAKER_02Oh, that's true. That's true. That's true.
SPEAKER_01And then later on, it's playing in sports. And then when they get older, it's like I don't know. The cell phone. No. Boyfriend, boyfriend. Husbands, you name it.
SPEAKER_02Oh no, the not the husbands. Get the husbands out of here.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah.
John 6 And The Real Presence
SPEAKER_02Um, well, thank you for again for joining us on this podcast, Dad. So this is our we call it count the fruit. So we do this every month where we read the gospels for the month, and we just kind of go through and reflect on, you know, one or two little nuggets of wisdom that we, you know, that made us think from the gospel. Um, so I'll start us off. We have June 7th, um, which was the Solemnity of the Most Holy Body and Blood of Christ. Um, and do you know, do you have any ideas what the gospel would be for the solemnity of the body and blood? What what chapter? I'm putting you on the spot, I know, and I should do that.
SPEAKER_01Uh it would be John.
SPEAKER_02Yep. Yep. John 6, 51 through 58. You know that's a that's an ordained man right there. That's how you know he knows. Um Jesus said to the Jewish crowds, I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever, and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world. The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? Jesus said to them, Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. Just as the living Father sent me, and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds me will have life because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever.
SPEAKER_00Always a good one. This this folks is what it means to be Catholic. Yeah. Dad, do you have any first thoughts?
SPEAKER_01First thoughts?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01It is the quintessential reason why we are all connected to God. Period.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. Well, and I feel like this is the verse that we always quote when we are referring to the Eucharist and like why we go to communion and why it's it is like the source and summit of our faith, like why it is what we believe, truly. Um, I just quoted here from like a reflection by Catholic Mom Holy Cross Ministries, because I thought this was interesting. But she said, just as babies are programmed to grow by way of constant nearness to their mother, we become who we are fully created to be when we are fed by Christ in the Eucharist. Receiving the Eucharist, the source and summon of our faith, is what gives us true life in Christ. And I just thought that was interesting, particularly to me, because I am a new mom. And so the idea of like a baby, you know, being programmed to be to grow by being near to her mother makes sense because that is what we are all kind of programmed to do as well. Like our creator created us. So in turn, it we will constantly desire him to grow right next to him, to to consume him for life. Um, but yeah, anyways, that was that was something that I thought was interesting.
SPEAKER_02No, I I think that's a great point. We don't often think of Jesus, I won't, I won't say as like a mother figure, because that's not, but it as um it's a provider, right? In the same way that a mother is a provider for a baby, so is Christ, you know, the the provider for us in that spiritual nourishment. I also think this is a great verse if you are, you know, speaking, if you are a Protestant listening to this, or if you are a Catholic who's, you know, having a debate or speaking with somebody who's Protestant, this is one of the first verses that you should go to as a defense of why Catholics believe what we believe. Um, and I I know this is probably not true, but one of the things I've always thought about when reading scripture is I feel like Jesus, when he speaks in uh just to his disciples, and it's clearly not a parable, he's not telling a story, that's when he's to be taken literally. You know, it is he is commanding them, right? It's clearly not a story to be taken figuratively, it is a command to his disciples to do this. Um, and I think it's, you know, if you look at what Jesus teaches and when he preaches, it's good to be able to take that distinction where is he telling a story in a parable with a point, or is he giving a true command? And just as, you know, if he's giving a command, clearly he's meant to be taken very literally, I feel like. But I don't know how you feel about that, Dad.
SPEAKER_01Well, it certainly challenges us to believe in the metaphysical aspects. And I think he challenges us to he challenges our faith because what we see, hear, and do on this world is is uh subject to just our own set five senses. But when you incorporate his kingdom in the supernatural world and understand that both the supernatural world and the world actually coexist concurrently asking us to believe that this is his body and this is his blood takes a lot of faith to the point that you're conflicting your own senses and saying, wait a minute, that's not what I see. Because it does look like a wafer.
SPEAKER_02It does, it does.
SPEAKER_01And it does taste like wine.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. It's good wine. Port wine. We love port wine.
SPEAKER_00It's not always port wine, but we love it when it is. When it is port wine.
SPEAKER_01Right. But God, Jesus is saying, But hear me out. This is my body and this is my blood. And we you all of us have to get to a level in our spirituality to absolutely look at that bread. And the more we do this and the more we believe in it, it will happen to us that it will reveal his true body and blood.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But it just doesn't happen overnight.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It happens through constant prayer and belief and just showing up. Staking sticking with your faith.
SPEAKER_00Going to mass frequently. Well, yeah, even if it doesn't make sense, like trusting that God will reveal that to you. And I feel like it's very just like Jesus came into the form of a baby, and that like blew everyone's mind as well, because like this powerful figure, the king of heaven and earth, is now in the form of a baby. I feel like people look at this in the same kind of way. Like he came, he's now a piece of bread. Like, how how does that depict power and like righteousness? But it's just so contradictory to what we as humans view power to be.
SPEAKER_01Because everything we sit, we're rationalizing based on the context of our limited knowledge.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, and that's that goes back to a big piece of faith is believing, not knowing. Right? Or uh we there are certain things that we just have to to kind of chalk up to it's a mystery, right?
SPEAKER_01Well, when when God when God as Jesus says, This is my body, yeah. It first starts with, Well, do you believe that Jesus is God? That's true.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Because if if you believe that Jesus is God and you believe that God is almighty and omnipotent and all knowing and he's saying, Oh, a little wafer is me.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And you're looking at it, then it then all of a sudden you're gonna have a it's very conflicting. Yeah. So you start with how how how much do you believe that Jesus is God, and how much do you believe in God? So sometimes it starts it begins first with asking that question, and then all of a sudden everything makes sense as you look at the Eucharist.
SPEAKER_02That's interesting. I've never even thought about positing that question first. Right. That's interesting.
SPEAKER_00Well, yeah, and I feel like too, that just reading through this passage, I feel like it's still relevant today, the reaction that the Jews had when Jesus said, like, this is my body, um, and this is my flesh, and this is and you will consume this. Um, like the Jews said, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? And it's just this like baffling reaction, like, what? Like, how can we eat you? That makes literally no sense.
SPEAKER_01And I think back on um And that's that's why you go back to it because they never believed that Jesus is God.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's true, right? And I think back though, on just like conversations we've had with our peers, and like that, it's that same reaction, and it's just like I don't know, it's just cool to me that you can look back in the Bible and see that same kind of reaction and still see that today, you know, and like Jesus still commands the same thing, like this is my body and this is my blood, and that's never really changed, and I feel like that's really cool.
SPEAKER_01So and when you look at that question or that concept and ask a question, do you believe that's the Holy Eucharist? We all say yes, but our our our census says no. Yeah. So we we have to start with then, okay, the census says no, but look maybe I need to pass it through, maybe I need to take a look at it through the God through Jesus' lens.
SPEAKER_00Right, right.
SPEAKER_01And start there and then understand how it works. Yeah. Because when you think about when you think about the fact that he had to leave he was here for three years, right? And he says, I gotta go. But uh you know, the Holy Spirit will take over. Sure. Right. Well, but he came and this is my belief. He had to leave because as man, he can only be in one place at one time. Right.
SPEAKER_00That's cool.
SPEAKER_01Right. Yeah. Okay. But then he turned around and before he left, he said, By the way, this is my body, this is my blood, right? So what do we have now? How many churches do we have in the world?
SPEAKER_00A bajillion.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we got a lot. And then every time zone has a church celebrating mass at a particular point in time.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01So we would all agree that at any hour of the day there's mass, right? Yeah. And there's a priest who recites the rite.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01And Jesus becomes real at that point in time on earth, right? So it's happening 24-7, right? Yeah. Well, there you go. The reason, I mean, if you think about it, the reason he's on earth in that form is so that he is here present with us 24-7.
SPEAKER_02Well, and if he was in his human form, he's he bound himself into the limitations of being human. That's right. And when he his death allowed him to transcend his humanness, then at that point.
SPEAKER_01Into the body and blood, his divinity, into the body and blood of Christ.
SPEAKER_02That's that's really that's an awesome point. I never have thought about that. But that's a I I I subscribe to that theory. So um well, that's a we could talk about this.
SPEAKER_00We need like a like an episode just on like the Eucharist, because there's so much there. Um so it's cool that we got to start off with that gospel this June, but um, we will move along to the next Gospels.
The Harvest Needs More Laborers
SPEAKER_00Uh June 14th. Uh, this is Matthew 9, 36 through chapter 10, verse 8. At the sight of the crowds, Jesus' heart was moved with pity for them, because they were troubled and abandoned, like sheep without a shepherd. Then he said to his disciples, The harvest is abundant, but the laborers are few. So ask the master of the harvest to send out laborers for his harvest. Then he summoned his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to drive them out and to cure every disease and every illness. The names of the twelve apostles are these. First, Simon called Peter and his brother Andrew, James the son of Zebedee and his brother John, Philip and Bartholomew, Thomas and Matthew the tax collector, James the son of Alphaeus and Thadius, Simon from Cana and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him. Jesus sent out these twelve after instructing them thus do not go into pagan territory or enter a Samaritan town. Go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, Israel. As you go, make the proclamation the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Cure the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, drive out demons, without cost you have received, and without cost you are to give.
SPEAKER_02The thing that sticks out to me on this verse in particular is, you know, we are meant to be a people who evangelize, who spread the good news, but one of the things Jesus points out here is he says, uh see if I can find it. Uh do not go into pagan territory or enter a Samaritan town. Go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And I think that while clearly we are called to spread and share the gospel to everyone. The thing that sticks out to me is we need to start with the people right in front of us. You know, the gospel needs to be shared ultimately with the people that we have direct contact with in our lives. It doesn't necessarily need to be standing on the street corner talking and sharing the gospel to people walking by. It's living it out so that the people around you see you sharing the gospel. I don't know if that makes sense, Katie, or if you have a different thought on that.
SPEAKER_00Can you say it again in a different way?
SPEAKER_02Like when you when uh I forget who, whenever if somebody asks Mother Teresa, you know, how do we have world peace, right? What's the secret to world peace? And she said, Go home and love your family. Right? Like the the secret to a thriving church and a growing church is not necessarily handing out flyers on the street corner. The secret to a thriving church and parish is a parish that loves its parishioners and a group of people who truly care about the people sitting in that church building. And that is how you evangelize because when the people who are coming into the building feel loved, feel seen, feel heard, they then in turn will go and live out that life which will cause other people to come into the building and feel those same feelings.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I totally agree. And to be honest, I just said that because I didn't, I wasn't fully listening to you, but now I follow, I'm following. But um, and to add to your point, like in the beginning of this gospel, it says at the side of the crowds, Jesus' heart was moved with pity for them because they were troubled and abandoned. And I think about that because I think about all the times that I look at my surroundings and the people that I'm, you know, that I see on a day-to-day basis, and I see them um, because he says here, what they were troubled and abandoned, like they were, they were like sheep without a shepherd. So just like acting lost. And I feel like several times a day I will, you know, encounter somebody that I'm like, oh, they really like they seem like they're struggling, or they're, you know, like they've got stuff going on. And the amount of times that I just kind of like let that pass me by and just like, ah, I don't really have the time or the energy to really ask you what's going on, or like, are you okay? Or I'll just pretend like I didn't see it. And so I think about the amount of times we probably all do that. And the difference is we might pity them. We might be like, oh, that really stinks that you're going through this. But here Jesus was moved with that pity. And I just think that that's I don't know, to me that feels significant because how often are we moved to action? How often are we, you know, you said the laborers are few. How often are we putting in the work to really spread like the gospel, spread this message of love because it's just simply like inconvenient? And like you said, like there are so many people, even just like in our own family or in your church community or at work that just like need this ounce, your ounce of attention and your ounce of love to like keep them going and to see like his love. But that's that's what stuck out to me. Daddy, do you have any thoughts?
SPEAKER_01I completely agree.
SPEAKER_00Ditto. But yeah, and then other than that, I feel like this is also kind of outlining like the call to the religious life, right? Like, like these are his disciples, and then eventually, you know, he he hands them the power to cure illnesses and all those things. And like, I don't know, I just think that naturally like the church is always needing and longing for like the religious life people to step into that role and like good, faithful servants that really feel called to do that. Um, so it's cool just to see that call, you know, in the Bible and then also know that it's like a still still like a big need in our community. Anyways, any other thoughts, anybody?
SPEAKER_02No, I think it's I think it's a great gospel, and I think that the I don't know, uh Dad, where do you feel and stand kind of on the idea that the laborers are few? You know, do you feel like there seems to be a growing response to the call? Like I feel like, you know, 10, 15 years ago there was we were hearing about, you know, the dearth of priests and there's not enough priests, but now I feel like at least in the diocese of Charleston, they're they're the seminary is pretty healthy. Do you feel like that's the case? Or, you know, is it kind of just dependent on the diocese?
SPEAKER_01Well, my my take on laborers are few deal more with the baptized individual.
SPEAKER_02Oh, good. And um put it back on us.
SPEAKER_01Well, uh first off, the when Jesus said that there weren't a whole lot of people baptized.
SPEAKER_02That's that's true. That's true.
SPEAKER_01And he was in when you're dealing with the Gospel of Matthew, you're dealing with um the perspective of the Jewish um well the the Jewish reader. Yeah, but since it's written for the Jews.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So essentially what Jesus was saying pragmatically at the time is we need to convert more people to Christianity. We baptize them.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And the baptismal calling for all of us essentially is for us to evangelize others into the faith. That makes sense. So um so today there are a lot of folks that are baptized. Now the question is are they practicing their faith? Are they doing what they're being called to do? Yeah. And the answer is probably no, because they're too busy with secular um distractions.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I think today the church is calling on everyone to begin the process of um starting up their baptismal calling and say, listen, it's simple. Invite people to church.
SPEAKER_02Love that.
SPEAKER_01Uh in Curcia we would say uh make a friend, be a friend, and bring a friend to Christ. And if everyone were to do that, then they're facilitating their baptismal call. Yeah. So that's my take on it. I like that.
SPEAKER_00I do actually that brings up a good point because I feel like I feel like I just want to celebrate our baptism more. Like I've with at least with Mary Jo, like I want it to be just as special as her birthday because it is like a monumental moment in our faith, and I think that just that just reminded me of that. So thank you. All right.
SPEAKER_02Next verse or next uh next gospel.
Fear, Courage, And Public Witness
SPEAKER_02This is Matthew ten, twenty-six through thirty-three. Jesus said to the twelve, Fear no one, nothing is concealed that will not be revealed, nor secret that will not be known. What I say to you in the darkness, speak in the light. Whatever you hear whispered, proclaim on the house tops, and do not be afraid of those who kill the body, but cannot kill the soul. Rather be afraid of the one who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna. Are not two sparrows sold for a small coin? Yet not one of them falls to the ground without your father's knowledge. Even all the hairs on your head are counted. So do not be afraid, you are worth more than many sparrows. Every one who acknowledges me before others, I will acknowledge knowledge before my heavenly father. But whoever denies me before others, I will deny before my heavenly father. Um immediately, this just I'm just thinking of St. Maximilian Colby when I hear this voice or this verse.
SPEAKER_00I feel like it was.
SPEAKER_02I don't know. Do you know that, Dad? Maximilian Colby's feast day? I don't know.
SPEAKER_00Maybe not. I was just listening to Reflection, I think this morning. That's why that was cool that you said that.
SPEAKER_02Well, just the idea of you want to talk about somebody who was not afraid of somebody who was going to kill the body because he he knew his soul was gonna be fine, you know?
SPEAKER_00Right. Well, actually, no, that's what it was. I was listening to a reflection on Christian martyrs, and like that's so cool. You I like that you said that, it puts that into context. Like they were just not afraid of you know, harm to their body or his physical pain because of how much like they trusted the Lord, you know. So in and it he even makes the point like you should be way more afraid of somebody that can not only damage your body, but your soul. Um, but then on the topic of fear, I also think it's cool. Several times in this gospel, he said, do not, like, do not be afraid. Um, and I just feel like that's really relevant because I feel like a lot of the things that I, you know, like the dreams and aspirations that we all have are often put on hold because of fear and because of this, I don't know, this doubt of our ability to do anything, which is valid, right? Like we're human, like we can't do anything on our own. And so I think it's just a good reminder that if you have God on your side, like there's no reason to be afraid. And um, Bishop Barron, on one of his like reflections on these gospels, he said, When we fear, we cling to who we are and what we have. Fear is a result of forgetting our deepest identity in God. And I just I I feel like I relate to that because anytime that I'm like panicking or like trying to like get my life in sorts, like I'm just like constantly clinging to my routine and my schedule and the things that I know and make me feel comfortable. But at my core, like I know I never feel comfortable or at peace because I'm, I don't know, I'm I'm acting out of fear. And so I just I feel like this is a good reminder, at least for me, to not let myself be controlled by fear.
SPEAKER_02Well, and I think a big reason why he says do not be afraid is because I I feel like fear leads to inaction. You know, oftentimes fear is paralyzing, and inaction, I feel like is one of the things that I don't know, that makes oh, you disagree?
SPEAKER_00And I I don't normally disagree. I I because I just like had a conversation with somebody about this. You can be afraid and do something. Like I was afraid, I have terrible um fear of speaking in public. And every time I've done it, for sure, totally afraid. But I feel like you can be afraid and do something, but I feel like what actually leads to inaction is avoidance, avoiding the fear altogether. But that's maybe a topic for another time.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I don't I I think you're right. I think what I'm I'm thinking about a deer in the headlights, right? The deer doesn't move because it's terrified. And I feel like that's the I think that's what Jesus is saying when he's saying do not be afraid. What what I what I hear when you say that is, well, you were scared, but you you didn't do it because you were scared. You did it something overcame the fear, right? And I think that that's the for a long time fear was the thing that kept you from doing something. You know, and it's not that it's not that you can't have fear and do something, but oftentimes fear we are avoiding it, so that leads to not doing it. To paralysis. And I think that that's the one of the the cruxes of this verse, and one of the things that as Christians we need to understand is that we are called to live a life of being unafraid. That doesn't mean that we should go out and live recklessly. It means that we should have the confidence to make the hard choices and have the confidence to know that whatever happens, whatever earthly harm may come to us, our soul is what matters.
SPEAKER_00That makes me well, first of all, Dad, do you have any thoughts? Well, you start He's been stewing over there.
SPEAKER_01Well, fear fear is an interesting topic because it's uh it's one of the reasons that breaks communities or relationships up. So when I think of fear, I think of what is what is causing a breakup in the relationship. So you can you can take a look at two people who are very close and you there might be an insecurity between them. A fear, a fear of losing the other person, a fear of um a fear of being harmed by the other person, a fear of doing something that could jeopardize a relationship. So you you begin with the relationship and ask the question, is fear gonna break that relationship up? And when you look at that, you have to you have to ask the question, is the devil involved with this breakup? Because that's the goal for the devil is to always break relationships up. Then you can then you can move forward and you can take a look at um rhetoric. Alright, are all migrant illegal aliens dangerous in society? The answer is no. But can you create rhetoric to make it sound as if a hundred percent of all of them are rapist and terrible scary people? Terrible, scary people. And it creates a fear that that um marginalizes one group with another. It breaks up that relationship. And it breaks up the relationship, but the reality is is that in God's eyes we're all the same children of God or people. So so you have to you have to start with the with the the fear side of things, and what's causing us to to marginalize other people is because of fear.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01And and Jesus is saying, don't be afraid. You cannot be afraid of other people because I will always be there. And that's sort of what Pope Leo is saying to everyone. Yeah. Um now granted uh maybe the rhetoric could be done differently. And and um but unfortunately yeah, you know, um uh politics is politics and it's it's uh using it's using fear as an avenue to reach a lot of people right and right the wrong. Right. But on uh but at to what expense.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_01So anyway, that's that's sort of my take on fear.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's a good point too, because I do feel like fear, just as much as courage is contagious, I feel like fear is like this epidemic. Like it's it's like this rapidly spreading virus. Like you're scared, so then I'm scared because ever everyone in the room is uneasy, and that's the same. Like this access to media just like exacerbates the spread of fear. And like people see it all the time. It's at your fingertips, and we're never we were never meant to consume this much information, and so now we're all just living in this state of fear and anxiety and uncertainty, right?
SPEAKER_01And then to to build off of that, then what does fear create? It creates barriers, it it creates um prejudice, it creates everything that makes our heart stony, that's that's the danger.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So we're we're we've been b born with stony hearts, we've been baptized, but we spent a lifetime trying to make it into a divine heart.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01But then fear comes back in and throws more mud against against the heart.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's like this push and pull constantly, like you can't just be baptized and then live in this like state of peace and euphoria and love forever. Like you have to constantly work fighting against that fear. But, anyways, great point,
Faith And Works With Skin In
SPEAKER_00Dan. Um, the last gospel is Um, please hold June 28th, Matthew 10, 37 through 42. Jesus says to his apostles, Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever does not take up his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. Whoever receives you receives me, and whoever receives me receives the one who sent me. Whoever receives a prophet because he is a prophet will receive a prophet's reward, and whoever receives a righteous man because he is a righteous man will receive a righteous man's reward. And whoever gives only a cup of cold water to one of these little ones to drink, because the little one is a disciple, amen. I say to you, he will surely not lose his reward.
SPEAKER_02The this would be another verse, and I uh sc or gospel, and I remember actually quoting this gospel to one of my friends or bringing this up when speaking about faith versus works. And again, I mean that's a an age-old Protestant versus Catholic debate on faith versus works, and you know, the Catholic stances that it's you know it's it's hand in hand. You you can't have one without the other. It's not that, you know, we all know that we can't earn our way into salvation. You know, salvation is uh given, not not earned. But the to me, this is Jesus kind of saying, again, he's he's not necessarily speaking in parable, he's speaking a little more literally here, saying you gotta have a little skin in the game too. You know, you have to receive me, you have to know me, you have to love me. That should take the form of action. You know, that your love for me should should cause you to give that that cup of cold water. You know, does that make sense? Are you are you following?
SPEAKER_00Or I feel like you're No, I was just thinking, um, I feel like I'm gonna butcher this, and I might have already said this before, but you saying that like you have to what'd you say, put a little skin in the action? A little skin Is that what she said? I was like, wait, what? Skin in the game. Okay, whatever. Speaking of what you're putting picking up what you're putting down. Um that made me think of the verse, my my yoke is easy and my burden is light.
SPEAKER_02And I my yoke may be heavy, but my burden is light, I think.
SPEAKER_00No. My yoke is easy and my burden is light. Dad, who's right? You're I think you're right, actually. I think I'm right. But, anyways, uh and I remember somebody told me, like, if you imagine a yoke, which is I'm picturing like a bowl and this heavy wooden thing that is like on top of two bowls. That's correct, right? That's what a a yoke is. I think I'm right again, but I'm just seeking validation. I didn't, first of all, I didn't know that's what that was.
SPEAKER_02Of course, like my Well, it's actually it's for it's a harness for like oxen.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so yeah, I'm picturing like two, just picture two like a this wooden beam and then two like oxen's holding this wooden bean up. And so I think about that because somebody pointed it out to me and it always has stuck out to me. Like a yoke requires like two heavy or strong beings to hold up. And of course, like Jesus is gonna carry the majority of the burden, but you need you need to be on the other side. You need to be willing to hold the other side. Of course, again, it's not gonna be heavy. The burden is light, but you need to be an active participant in this relationship. Um, and that is what I think of every time I think about like faith and works. Like it's it's not that he wants you to prove yourself or that you need to earn it, but it's like anything good, right? Like if you, if you've won this like reward or this competition that you've worked really, really hard for, it only feels good because you worked hard for it. You put in the work. And like I also think about your mom, right? A lot because she's always she's really big on like in order to empower her children, she's like, you can do it. I believe in you, you can do it. Like, I'm not gonna do it for you, but I believe in you. And I think about that a lot because I think that is where a lot of our strength comes from, is somebody believing in us and our ability to do hard things rather than somebody who's like, oh, let me just do it for you. Because where's the again, where's the gratitude in that? Like you're just gonna live your life feeling like things are being handed to you. But there's just so much more merit to being able to say, I also did that. Like again, I think about being parents. We got to be co-creators, right? Like, of course, Mary Jo is, you know, was created by God, and like that's beautiful, but we got to be active participants in that as well. And that's not because he needed us to, but because he wanted us to be a part of it. So anyways, those are my thoughts.
SPEAKER_02Dad, did you have any thought? Is we uh this is the homily you or that you had a homily for this gospel, correct?
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02Okay, I thought so. So I imagine you might have a thought or two.
SPEAKER_01No, I think you guys are spot on. I think the the message simply for Matthew was um from Jesus was everything we say or do we need to have him involved.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And we can't do it by ourselves.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. That's it. Sometimes it's nice when they're easy. Oh yeah. They're simple. We don't have to break down the true presence of the sacrament of the Eucharist.
SPEAKER_01So the first the first three lines was like, well, you know, if you prefer mom and dad or kids more than me, guess what? You're not worthy. Yeah. But then the last three dealt with things that Christ would want us to do. Yeah. Like give water to kids, yeah. Who could be future disciples, righteousness, etc. Yeah. All of those are Christ inspired, Christ involved. And when you have Christ involved in those actions, then you know they're gonna be good. And we should always set ourselves to have Christ be the motivator, the catalyst, the reason we choose, do say the things we do.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I think in like simpler terms, and what feels relatable to me when you said that is um just like this idea of involving God in like my day-to-day decisions. And I think about it because in the beginning of the gospel it says if you if you love your mother or your father or your daughter or your son more than me, um, like, or do not love your mother or your daughter more than me. And I think about just like adulthood in general. And my biggest hurdle, I think, coming into being an adult and learning to trust myself was I'd spent like the entirety growing up of asking like mom and dad for permission. Like, is this right? Like, can I do it this way? Or asking like mentors or teachers or you know, people that I looked up to for validation that what I was doing was the right thing. And there comes a point in life where all your mentors are gonna tell you different things. And it gets really confusing because it's like all these people that really validated these decisions that I've made in the past, like I'm getting confused, like they're all saying different things. And it's just like I feel like a theme in my life lately has been, okay, well, have you asked, have you asked God? And I think in a way by valuing other people's opinions, you are saying, I trust, I trust what you have to say more than what I trust God has to say. And like I've had to relearn how to turn to Jesus in that way and be like, okay, well, what do you think? Like, what should I do? And like you said, dad, anything that involves Jesus, like he will bring good to that decision. Um, and that's just been a really interesting lesson that I've had to like work through. But yeah, good talk, guys.
SPEAKER_02Good job, Dad. Hoorah.
Divine Mercy Prayer And Closing
SPEAKER_02Um, we're gonna say a prayer. Why did you want to say a prayer to Saint Faustina?
SPEAKER_00Well, because I just feel like the divine mercy chocolate has just been, you know, really relevant to our lives. So I just felt it felt fitting.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, very fitting. Um, so we're gonna just say um a little prayer uh inspired by Saint Faustina. So um this will be our closing prayer, no marriage meeting. This is the marriage meeting. This is the marriage meeting. I'm sorry. I was I was scoring.
SPEAKER_00Sometimes instead of talking during your marriage meetings, you just need to pray.
SPEAKER_02That's a good call. In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, amen. Amen. Oh Jesus, you inspired Saint Faustina with profound veneration for your boundless mercy. Grant me through her her intercession, if it be your holy will, the grace for which we fervently pray. What should we pray for? For MJ.
SPEAKER_00No.
SPEAKER_02Oh no.
SPEAKER_00Well yes, for MJ, but that the laborers may be plenty.
SPEAKER_02Oh, that's a good one. My sins render me unworthy of your mercy, but be mindful of Saint Faustina's spirit of sacrifice and self-denial, and reward her virtue by granting the petition which, with childlike confidence, I present to you through her intercession. Saint Faustina, pray for us. Pray for us. In the name of the Father, and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen.
SPEAKER_00Oh, thank you for listening. If you have stuck through the whole 45 minutes or 50 minutes, this has been. Um, and as always, keep growing together.
SPEAKER_02Oh.
SPEAKER_00Let's keep growing together. I said let's keep praying together.
SPEAKER_02Bye, guys. Bye.
SPEAKER_00Bye.