Count The Fruit: May Gospel Reflections

We talk through a month of real life highs and lows, from starting therapy to caring for MJ through her first stretch of sickness. Then we shift into “Count The Fruit,” reflecting on May’s Sunday Gospels and what they teach us about the Trinity, doubt, and living faith instead of over explaining it. 
• starting therapy and naming why it feels freeing 
• navigating anxiety when your baby gets sick 
• choosing a low stress anniversary trip and what it teaches us about family rhythms 
• why the May Gospels keep pointing back to the Trinity 
• faith and works as lived fruit rather than a scorecard 
• learning to love someone you cannot see and letting love reshape your expectations 
• the Ascension as power used for love not control 
• “they worshiped but they doubted” and making room for honest questions 
• Pentecost Sunday and the Catholic case for confession and apostolic succession 
• Trinity as mystery you can experience through liturgy, balance, and practice 
Let’s keep growing together. 

An exclusive from Dery Media Podcasts. Explore diverse perspectives and enrich your knowledge at derymedia.com. Telling stories that matter, sparking meaningful discussions.

Transcript

Filming Ourselves And The Shoe Rule

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Hello, friends.

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hello.

SPEAKER_03 0:02

I this is weird.

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Yeah, it is. Am I supposed to look in the camera?

SPEAKER_03 0:06

I don't know. I think I think I'm gonna look at you.

SPEAKER_00 0:08

Okay, you can look at me. I'll look at the camera. The whole time Katie will just be like right here.

SPEAKER_03 0:30

We are watching. This is different. This is new for us. We're well, I mean, we've done it before, but it's still very unfamiliar. We are filming ourselves.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

You're in front of the camera.

SPEAKER_03 0:39

We are in front of the camera.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

Hi camera.

SPEAKER_03 0:40

Hello, people. I'm Katie.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

I'm Joe.

SPEAKER_03 0:43

And welcome to the line. We're back.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

We're back again. Nothing's changed for them.

SPEAKER_03 0:49

It's no, they're like, we we they're we're probably not even watching this video. It's probably only like a 30-second video on Instagram.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

But but here's 40 minutes worth of storage into your phone.

SPEAKER_03 0:59

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

Ready to go. Katie um made us put shoes on. And I think it was the right call. I really do, because we were both barefoot. And uh Katie was like, I'm kind of getting the ick looking at our feet.

SPEAKER_03 1:12

No. Well, yes, looking at our toes.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

In particular, our toes.

SPEAKER_03 1:17

I just couldn't stop. I just and I just knew if I was doing it, then I'm sure somebody out there would also be doing it.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

Oh, yeah. Well, when you said that, I was like, I don't think I've ever seen a podcast video where they don't have shoes on. So I think that's fair. I think that's fair. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:34

Well, welcome back. Yeah.

Peaks And Pits With A Sick Baby

SPEAKER_00 1:36

Um, Katie, what's your pit and peak?

SPEAKER_03 1:38

We have been doing a lot of nothing and a lot of everything.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

Okay. You elaborate. She says nothing.

SPEAKER_03 1:48

Yeah, that was kind of me saying nothing at the same time. I was processing out loud. Um, oh gosh. Okay, a peak. I think a big peak for me this past month. Yeah. Or cut past couple weeks is I went to therapy for the first time. Wow. Like ever. I know. Like I've always been very pro-mental health, pro-therapy. Like, yeah, like, you know, pour into your mind, your spirit, and your body, whatever. I never actually have gone to therapy myself. Like I'm just a very introspective person and I do a lot of reflecting and processing, like with people. Like, I've never really been afraid to talk about my feelings.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:28

But I just didn't realize like how refreshing it could be to talk to somebody completely unbiased, yeah, but very professional. And um, yeah, it made me excited for like growth and also made me like it felt very liberating to know that I could heal in these areas of my life. Like I feel like you you kind of get to a point where you're struggling with these things and these insecurities, and you're like, well, this is just like a personality thing, and you kind of just accept it for what it is, which some cases are true.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

Meaning, sorry, I'm just asking a follow-up question. Meaning, like you're just like you at whatever, 28 are a fully formed human being.

SPEAKER_03 3:06

Yeah, it's like this is just who I am, like I have to get over it, or you know, like I don't need to acknowledge it, or whatever. And I'm being very vague because I yeah, I can't really dissect that right now. Yeah, but like it just was refreshing to realize like I can work through this and I can heal in these areas of my life. Well, that's great. And it was nice. So that was a big peak. Yeah. Um, a pit, which we might have the same pit, who knows? Yeah. Um Mary Jo has been sick for sickness. I've been like clenching my my toes.

SPEAKER_00 3:41

Sure, sure, clenching your toes.

SPEAKER_03 3:43

I've been just clenching all of me thinking about you've been tense.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

How about that? How about instead of clenching?

SPEAKER_03 3:49

It's I'm currently clenching my fingers, so that's why that came to my brain.

SPEAKER_00 3:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:54

But um, but yeah, I've just been like worried and anxious about like the time that she would get sick because as a nurse, I feel like I should be equipped to handle this, but it also feels like so foreign to me because pediatric patients are so different than oncology patients, like sickness manifests so differently in these populations. And so I just totally doubting my instincts. As I I mean, I clearly had no idea she was sick. Joe was the one that caught on to the fact that she was sick.

SPEAKER_00 4:22

Well, I think it's just I was there when it like really manifested itself.

SPEAKER_03 4:26

Yeah, I I don't know. You were like, Do you think she's warm? I feel like something's wrong. And I'm like, She's just being a baby, she's always fine. She did a baby, she's always fussy. And lo and behold, I checked her temperature and she had a fever.

SPEAKER_00 4:39

Well, what gave it away is we have the little nanit camera that tracks her breaths, and like normally, like when she's sleeping, her breaths are really like slow. So she's like, maybe she's only breathing like it's just a good thing. She's only breathing like 26 breaths per minute. And then her whole nap, she was at like 40 breaths per minute.

SPEAKER_03 4:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:55

And I was like, that seems weird.

SPEAKER_03 4:57

Yeah, and then she was extra fussy and she was warm. And it's been like a solid almost like a week of her being sick. And like she's on the mend for sure.

SPEAKER_00 5:04

But I think she has had two different I think they're all related.

SPEAKER_03 5:08

How could they be different? But like now she's coughing. Well, it's all it's like in the yuck out.

SPEAKER_00 5:12

Isn't this the worst? Just like talking about somebody's sick baby. You're like, oh, she's coughing. Wow. Yeah, but also, but this is everything.

SPEAKER_03 5:20

If you're in the thick of this with us, you know, like gosh, this is like everything. It's like, what do you do?

SPEAKER_00 5:25

Like for like 15 minutes, Connor and I yesterday just talked about like, oh, Max rolling over. Wow. Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:33

So if you were in the thick, if you are not in the thick of it and you're so distant from the season of life, I apologize. I'm excited.

SPEAKER_00 5:39

Don't show your toes. Careful.

SPEAKER_03 5:40

I'm scratching my foot, okay? But it's just like everything, everything is so new, and like we just have to like debrief all the time every day, and just it consumes us. But she's doing better, she's coughing now. Um, no fever. She had a rash. It's just been it's just been sad girl era the past few days. So that is my bit.

SPEAKER_00 6:03

Um, I'm surprised. I I have a peek. Um, I don't think we've recorded since this. Uh, we went to the mountains with MJ for our anniversary.

SPEAKER_03 6:11

Oh, we talked about going to the mountains.

SPEAKER_00 6:13

Yeah, but I don't think we had gone yet.

SPEAKER_03 6:15

We did not.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

Um, so for our anniversary, we were going to go to New York with MJ. Um, and kind of last second we looked at each other and we were like, we don't want to take MJ to that sounds like a terrible thing. That sounds like a lot, and putting her on the plane, and we didn't want to get caught like if she was gonna get sick or fussy, like getting stuck in a hotel in New York City just sounds kind of boring. So we were like, what else could we do? And we were like, let's go to the mountains. So uh we celebrated our anniversary with little Miss MJ and we went to the mountains and had an absolutely awesome time.

SPEAKER_03 6:49

So relaxing. Um it was just it was like hard enough for me to feel like we did this, like we can we can do hard things as a family, but also wasn't so difficult. So like we weren't like flying with her and going to New York and like stressing ourselves out.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

We had a beautiful view, so like when she was napping, we literally just sat outside on the porch and you know, looked at an amazing view of the mountains. And uh we ate at a bunch of fun restaurants in Bryson City. We went to the Appalachian aquarium, it was very special, very neat. Lots of fly fishing, lots of fly fishing stuff as Katie and I are both avid fly fisher people.

SPEAKER_03 7:25

We're just like walking around like, oh, okay, another look.

SPEAKER_00 7:28

Yeah, wow.

SPEAKER_03 7:28

Is that a bug?

SPEAKER_00 7:30

It's a fake bug. Um so that was a lot of fun, and uh yeah, that was great. And insert the picture of MJ in the hiking backpack at this part of the podcast.

SPEAKER_03 7:41

I guess it's not a video podcast, but yeah, I mean we have a really you're really overestimating my editing skills.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

No, you can do it, you can do it. Um But we took her on a little hike and uh we had like the little hiking backpack for babies, and she loved it, and that made me really happy.

SPEAKER_02 7:58

Yeah, she did have a blast.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

And so our next our next big foray into parenthood is gonna be uh our pool is open. And we're gonna have nasty weather, so we haven't taken her yet, and then she was sick, so we're gonna take her to the pool soon, and we're very excited about it. She's gonna be like I bought her a little floaty. I'm so pumped.

SPEAKER_03 8:19

She's gonna be like mediocrely entertained. She'll be like, She'll just be like, uh.

SPEAKER_00 8:24

And then like it's gonna take us an hour to like get everything set up and ready, put sunscreen on her bathing suit, get to the pool, and then she's gonna be there for like 15 minutes. 20 minutes at the most. Yeah, and be like, this is she's gonna be. I'm ready to be done.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

Yeah, good thing we live close to the pool.

SPEAKER_00 8:40

Yeah. Um, so that was my peak, I would say. Just that trip was a lot of fun. Honestly, like those, I think it was two weekends back to back because then the weekend after that we went to my parents' house. Um, and just had to have a relaxing. Normally when we go to my parents' house, there's like a lot of activity going on.

SPEAKER_02 8:54

Fun activity.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

Yeah, but uh like it's rare for us to get time just like the four of us plus MJ. And it's rare for them to get time with just MJ.

SPEAKER_03 9:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:04

So that was really nice.

SPEAKER_03 9:05

Yeah, except for the fact it was raining and we wanted to do it. It was raining again.

SPEAKER_00 9:08

But we got to go on a boat ride.

SPEAKER_03 9:09

Yeah, yeah, you're right.

SPEAKER_00 9:10

So, I mean, we made the most we could. We did. Uh in my pit. Um yeah, she's sick. Yeah, it sucks. Yeah, yeah, it's really not that fun.

SPEAKER_03 9:20

I'm kind of over it now. At first, it was like, oh my baby. Yeah, and now I'm like, all right, it's been almost a week, girl. Like, suck it up.

SPEAKER_00 9:29

You can take a nap longer than 40 minutes.

SPEAKER_03 9:31

You don't need to be a booby barnacle.

SPEAKER_00 9:34

A booby barnacle. Oh, got it. Put those pieces together. I was like, what? Well, we what we just watched the Sandlot earlier today, and the all the nicknames they call each other. I thought I was like, is that a squint? Yeah, well, squint. Well, were you there? Were you or were you did you fall asleep when they were like they were calling each other like fart sniffer? No, but that's such a like 12-year-old boy thing to do. And then the biggest one of them all, you play ball like a girl. And they all they go crazy. So yeah, the peaks and pit.

Count The Fruit And May Gospels

SPEAKER_03 10:09

Well, it is the end of May. We're literally filming this the day before we have to post it. So we're we're cutting it close. But we have not done a count the fruit in a long time.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

Count the fruit.

SPEAKER_03 10:20

Count the fruit. So just a little refresher. I count the fruit around here is um kind of like counting like the well, never mind. Let me let's start over. Let's start over. I count the count the fruit around here is um basically just Sunday gospel reflections.

SPEAKER_02 10:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 10:38

It's all the Sunday gospels for the past month, and we just sit here and we pull the pieces of the gospels that we like and some insight that we've liked, and some fruit that we are taking from the gospels into our lives.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 10:53

And chatting about it.

SPEAKER_00 10:54

Yeah, and we're gonna just have a little chat.

SPEAKER_03 10:56

Another chat chat.

SPEAKER_00 10:58

He's got good chat. Um all right, you ready?

SPEAKER_03 11:01

Yeah, let's do it.

John 14 And An Invitation In

SPEAKER_00 11:02

So May 3rd is John 14, 1 through 12. Jesus said to his disciples, Do not let your hearts be troubled. You have faith in God, have faith also in me. In my father's house there are many dwelling places. If there were not, would I have told you that I am going to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back again and take you to myself, so that where I am you also may be. Where I am going, you know the way. Thomas said to him, Master, we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way? Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you know me, then you will also will also know my Father. From now on you do not you do know him and have seen him. Philip said to him, Master, show us the Father, and that will be enough for us. Jesus said to him, Have I been with you for so long a time and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen the Father, whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, Show us the Father? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on my own. The Father who dwells in me is doing his works. Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe because of the works themselves. Amen, amen. I say to you, Whoever believes in me will do the works that I do, and will do greater ones than these, because I am going to the Father.

SPEAKER_03 12:33

I love like I feel like the theme for the past Gospels of this month has just been like solely focused on the Trinity.

SPEAKER_00 12:42

Yeah, I was thinking that too.

SPEAKER_03 12:43

Which makes sense because today's the feast of the Holy Trinity. So like all the gospels are leading up to this Sunday.

SPEAKER_02 12:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:49

But I love like the continuity of it. Like this is like talking about, you know, going back to the Father and like preparing a place for you. And like the relationship between, you know, Father, Son, Holy Spirit is just really something cool to dive into.

SPEAKER_00 13:04

Well, I think our Protestant brothers and sisters, you know, um, just in talking with them about some of their Sunday services, like they always talk about, oh, my my pastor's giving a a three-week sermon on the Trinity, giving a three-week sermon on marriage and things like that. And to Catholics, sometimes that sounds foreign because it's like, well, why you know, why are you doing three weeks on the same topic? But oftentimes when you actually look through the gospel, like we do something similar. We do very similar things. Like, here are five gospels that are leading us into this, you know, this feast day, or um it's just oftentimes on more of a I want to say a grander scale, but it's more bigger picture than just one simple like subject or topic. One thing that stood out to me um that I thought was really interesting was when Jesus said, Um, do you do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on my own. The Father who dwells in me is doing his works. Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe because of the works themselves. And I find that very interesting because I actually just had a debate with one of my good friends, uh not a debate, but we were just talking about um faith and works. And it's interesting to hear Jesus say that where you know we're told constantly that Jesus is the word, right? He is the truth, he is gospel. Um, and you know, Jesus essentially is scripture manifest. But to then hear himself say, Well, listen, if you don't believe me because of my words, look at what I've done and believe that. Um and I I've never put those pieces together. Like I find that very um against sometimes what we believe, where you know, not that works aren't important, but I don't know, I oftentimes think about belief ne not needing the works in the sense that I don't need to feel super happy to believe in God. I don't need to see a miracle to believe in God. Um, because I feel like it should be bigger than that. But to hear him say that, hey, sometimes some people may need to see to see the miracle to believe is interesting. I don't know if that's that came across bad that I don't believe in works.

SPEAKER_03 15:25

At first I was trying to understand where you're coming from because the way that I interpreted it was um You just touched hands, sorry. Spark fly. Um the way I interpreted that specifically, at least to me, felt like you know, it's like if if it doesn't make sense to you, if it's not clicking, like if you're not feeling it, like just do like the works, like go to mass, go to confession, like do the sacraments, and like because I am there and I like I've created these things, like eventually like your heart will grow into understanding, like and believing in completely. I don't know. That's kind of how he took it. But then on your point, I was talking to Nicole actually, because they we just went on um a pilgrimage to Europe, as we've talked about a bunch, and coming back from that, she was like, you know, I I just feel like God knew I needed to see like the miraculous sites, like to see like the Lord, like um our lady of lords or like fat and melt. Like I needed to like be there because I'm such a tangible like person, and I feel like that's fair, like it's fair to admit like I need something, like it's not like I need proof. I just like I need something to like connect the dots, and I feel like so I I guess I also do see where you're coming from. I can see how that makes sense too.

SPEAKER_00 16:42

Um well I just get I get so caught up in my own interpretation of my faith and my own interpretation of how I experience a relationship with Christ that I forget that there are so many different ways to experience that relationship with him. Yes. In in the same way that my relationship with you is going to be very different.

SPEAKER_03 17:07

I wonder if Lucy's in the camera.

SPEAKER_00 17:08

I wonder if she is too, and what she just did a big yawn, so I don't know if anybody heard that. Probably not. But um like my relationship with you is very different than your relationship with your sisters, with your friends. And all those relationships are good and holy and important. They just look different. And to try and treat those other relationships like you treat me, or vice versa, is going about it wrong. So of course, Jesus does the same thing.

SPEAKER_03 17:38

Yeah, yeah. I like that. I like thinking of it that way because it's so easy to get frustrated when people aren't it's not clicking for people. Yeah. But we all like are going at our own pace and like different different milestones. Sorry, thinking when child speak, different air, different milestones. I'm just gonna go with that because that makes sense. But like we all reach different milestones at different times, regardless of like age and season of life. Like you just never know when somebody has that like aha moment.

SPEAKER_00 18:05

What's that Einstein quote that a lot of people use to make them feel selves feel smarter? That's a joke, people. It's a joke, but uh he's it's some quote where he's like, if you know, if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life thinking it's stupid. Yeah. Um which is a cute quote, but I feel like it's overused a little bit. But um I think that's kind of your point.

SPEAKER_03 18:27

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, one last thing I'll add to this is I liked just in the beginning, it was talking about I've prepared a place for you. Um, and I just feel like briefly reading through all the gospels before we started this podcast, I felt like all of them, especially like this, like the idea of like Jesus preparing a place for us, not only in heaven, but like here, like on earth to partake in the Trinity, felt like an invitation. And I like the idea of being invited into that kind of relationship. I don't know. Interesting. Like it just feels so distant and always has, like with Father, Son, Holy Spirit, you know, like they're very like powerful figures in our faith. But like I just felt like instead of looking at it that way, it was helpful for me to see I I felt more like love in the idea of like entering into that love with Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_00 19:28

Well, and like almost like like you said being invited.

SPEAKER_03 19:31

Yeah, like rather than like calling upon them to help me, I feel like it's the other way around. Like Jesus is like calling me into relationship with him and the Father and the Holy Ghost. I don't know. It that's I can't do it.

SPEAKER_01 19:47

Like I just Yeah, I like that.

SPEAKER_03 19:49

Like he's preparing a place for me and he's inviting me to come in rather than like he's he's always there. Like there's no need to be like, I need you to come into my heart. I mean, yes, I guess there is kind of like you need to invite Jesus into your heart, otherwise, you know, like he's not gonna force himself. But I also feel like it it goes both ways.

SPEAKER_00 20:10

Like, well, I we all have this image of like when you're at your lowest and you're you know it's raining outside and it's dark and you're on your knees screaming like God help me, you know, or whatever. And it's that image of like raining and it's I'm just painting a picture of a very you know off traumatic screaming in the rain in the dark. Neighbors think we're crazy. Um that's the image you have, right? Is like when you reach, you call out to Jesus or to God, but oftentimes it's he's been knocking on that door the whole time, you know.

SPEAKER_03 20:44

Yeah, like inviting you in. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:47

I I liked the idea about that that portion of the gospel, the idea that there's uh like there is they were worried about there being space. Oh I didn't actually think I don't think they specifically say that, but the reason Christ says that is because at the time my guess is that the you know the Jews thought that this was going to be a like an exclusive club, you know, and eventually they were gonna run out of space, you know. So, you know, get your membership while it's hot. But it's cool to see that he was very adamant to make sure they knew that that is not the case, that they knew there was room for everyone. And that this is not, you know, this is not about the chosen few, this is about everyone. Yeah, the all. Yeah, good one. Good reflection from us. Look at us go. Oops, I was talking to the wrong side. I do that a lot. All right, your turn.

Love, Commandments, And Learning By Doing

SPEAKER_03 21:49

Okay. Uh this was the second Sunday, John fourteenth, verses fifteen through twenty one. Jesus said to his disciples, if you Love me, you will keep my commandments, and I will ask the Father, and He will give you another advocate to be with you always, the Spirit of Truth, whom the world cannot accept, because it neither sees nor knows him, but you know him because he remains with you and will be in you. I will not leave you orphans, I will come to you. In a little while, the world will no longer see me, but you will see me, because I live and you will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my father, and you are in me, and I in you. Whoever has my commandments and observes them is the one who loves me, and whoever loves me will be loved by my father, and I will love him and reveal myself to him.

SPEAKER_00 22:42

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 22:43

Good one.

SPEAKER_00 22:44

That is a good one. What are your my initial thoughts? Can you read the first line again?

SPEAKER_03 22:50

Jesus said to his disciples, If you love me, you will keep my commandments, and I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to be with you on the community.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

It is a long sentence. Um that first half of of what he's saying there is usually my response. Funny it's funny, faith and works seem to be coming up a little bit in these, but um and in John 3.16, another one that where a big faith and works verse kind of, but uh that is my often go-to when I say why works are important. Not that they are more important than faith, and not that they are not that you can earn your way into heaven. We know that you know you cannot earn your way into heaven, but that the works are the fruit of your belief. You know, anyone who loves Christ will hold true to his commandments. And his commandments are more than just belief, they require action, they require fruit uh to show that you have kept the commandments.

SPEAKER_03 23:53

Yeah, I totally agree. I feel like what comes to mind for me is this like idea of like loving the father. The last line says, Whoever loves me will be loved by my father, and I will love him and reveal myself to him. Um and I just feel like this idea of like loving someone that you can't see, yeah, and like physically have a relationship with like you can in the world, feels really hard. And I think that just like really teaches a person how to love authentically. And I feel like this to me, it's like I'm spending my whole life figuring out how to love the father, yeah. And like every day I'm baffled with like, wow, I could be loving him so much more.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:38

Um, but yeah, like this whoever loves me will be loved by my father, and I will love him and reveal myself to him. And like this idea that like the more like I strip myself of like my expectations of love and like learn to love him deeper, he will reveal myself, reveal himself to me even more. I don't know. It just it feels like like there's like so many layers to like loving the father, and I'm probably just saying like a lot of nonsense because it doesn't really make sense to me, but I don't know, just like this idea of love and like how it's so hard to grasp because he's like not physically here and yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:20

Well, in um in the reflection, so the other thing we do with Count the Fruit is instead of doing a marriage meeting, we do a reflection, and then the reflection that I'm gonna read, um it's Father Longenecker's letter in the bulletin. He I'm not gonna step on it too much, but he talks about things that are hard to describe, and one of them is love. Love is a very hard thing to describe, you know, because if you had to describe it to somebody who has, you know, is very literal or has, you know, has never maybe quote unquote experienced love, it's really hard to narrow down what that feeling actually is, you know, and to try and put it into a box, like you were saying, like you just don't you have to remove your expectations of what it feels like of what you think love is sometimes in order to truly actually love someone. Right? Is that kind of what you were saying?

SPEAKER_03 26:15

Yeah, yeah. Like it's those like expectations and ideas of love are just constantly shifting, like in every in every season of like our lives.

SPEAKER_00 26:26

Sorry.

SPEAKER_03 26:28

Why are you coming over here?

SPEAKER_00 26:29

Well, I'm sorry, I was just trying to invading my bubble. Hold the mic a little closer to your mouth. You're like, so anyway, I was out here. Sorry, people. Um, but yeah, I think that that's again, like in talking, you know, we were out with some or I was out with some friends last night and you weren't there.

SPEAKER_03 26:48

I was very much in bed.

SPEAKER_00 26:49

You were a CP. Um and we were just talking about marriage, and um one of the guys was is in a relationship, not married yet, and was kind of just asking, like, what's what's different when you get married? And what kind of one of the things that we all came back to, the three guys that were married there that were talking to, and were just like, You your lives don't change, you will change, and you should change, and that's a good thing that you will try, you will learn how to love your partner, not how you think they should be loved, but how they feel and need to be loved, and that's a really hard thing.

SPEAKER_03 27:25

It's just hard to describe, like yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:26

But how do you describe to that to somebody who's not married and hasn't lived through it?

SPEAKER_03 27:30

It's the same, I feel the same thing about like motherhood. Like, I was like desperate for advice before we had the baby, and then in the beginning You couldn't ask enough questions, and in the beginning of like like the newborn phase, I'm like, how do I do this? What do you do with this and this and that? And so many people were like, I just like here's what I do, but honest to goodness, like you just gotta do it. Like, yeah, you have to do it, you have to be uncomfortable, you have to be in the thick of it to really understand what I'm trying to tell you. And like that was just the most frustrating answer, but it was just so true. Like, there's just nothing.

SPEAKER_00 28:01

But there's so many things in life that are that way, yeah. And that's the you know, when people are out there searching, if if you anybody are listening here, boing, um, are searching for something. What we have found works the best is you have to just go and do it and experience these things, and you might fail and it might be terrible, but you can't learn how to do it other than that, you know, like then other than actually doing it, you know. If you want to make friends and make community, you just have to go do it. You literally and it literally it's brute force of will to just get out there in front of people and a couple times you're gonna get out there and fail. And a couple times it's gonna work. Yeah, you know, same thing. If you're looking for a relationship, if you're looking to get pregnant, if you're looking to find a new career, it's just a simple sometimes it's literally just brute force of will. You know.

SPEAKER_03 28:58

Gosh, so hard.

SPEAKER_00 29:00

Yeah, and that's why it's hard.

SPEAKER_03 29:02

Um so simple, so complicated.

Ascension And Worship With Doubt

SPEAKER_00 29:04

Matthew, uh, May 17th, Matthew 28, 16 through 20. This is um the ascension. The eleven disciples went to Galilee.

SPEAKER_03 29:14

There were two gospels for this day, and I'm a little bit nervous. I chose the wrong one. There was one for the ascension, and then there was one for the seventh Sunday um of Easter.

SPEAKER_00 29:23

I think it was the ascension. So I think you were right.

SPEAKER_03 29:24

Yeah, so I was like, why are there two? And I figured it was the ascension because that was the because that was the feast day, but I remember the ascension was like on a weekday and it was moved to that Sunday.

SPEAKER_00 29:35

I think it takes precedent.

SPEAKER_03 29:37

That's what I'm thinking. So we're gonna go with that. Yeah, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 29:40

It's the ascension.

SPEAKER_03 29:41

It was the it was the ascension, I know that. So I don't see why we wouldn't read that gospel.

SPEAKER_00 29:46

I mean, listen, it's still it's all the gospel, it's all the word of Jesus, man. Uh the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had ordered them. When he saw them, they worshiped but doubted, but they doubted. Then Jesus approached and said to them, All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you, and behold, I am with you always until the end of the age.

SPEAKER_03 30:16

Jeez, I've really liked that one.

SPEAKER_00 30:18

Honestly, this is terrible. It makes me think of like uh cults. Okay. And and the reason um it makes me think about why Jesus is why Christianity has per like persisted and lasted so much longer. It's like a lot of cult leaders will do similar things to what like Jesus did here, where he took his friends up on the mountain and and you know manifested himself uh you know, yet again in all his godly powers and said, Hey, I'm going to you know to go to heaven, but I will be with you always. Um But what he tells them to do, I think, is what is the most interesting. He doesn't use that power, he says, All power is within me, but instead of using that power as a conqueror to for his own gain, he tells them, go out and tell people that I love them. That is what how he decides to use his power. I think that's cool.

SPEAKER_03 31:10

Yeah, that is cool. Very like contrary to like a powerful figure, like what a dictator would do or a cult leader would do. Like just not using that power to force anybody to do anything but to love him.

SPEAKER_00 31:24

Yes, and and and to give them the option, you know. Um I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 31:29

I like it's cool. The first thing that I heard was they worshipped but they doubted.

SPEAKER_00 31:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 31:35

I just really like that because I feel like and you know this because I've been telling you this every night, but I feel like I've been like so humbled in my faith lately. Like just like in my faith in like my personal relationships, and just like I just did not realize like how I'm just gonna put myself on the spot there. I didn't realize like how highly I thought of myself, yeah. You know, and like I I I faith has always been like really, really important to me, and so much so that I felt like I knew how to prioritize it.

SPEAKER_02 32:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:08

Maybe better than other people.

SPEAKER_02 32:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:10

And I've just felt really like humbled and put in my place. And I think of this, like they worshipped and they doubted. And like before I would be like, How can you doubt? Like, how can you doubt? Like, look at it. Like the Eucharist is right there. And I just feel, I don't know, I feel like so much more um grace and like mercy towards people who show up and they doubt.

SPEAKER_02 32:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:34

And I, in a way, I think I am still doing that. Like, I am not above doubting. Nobody is, nobody is. Um, but yeah, I think I just I think like being humbled and like being able to like see that for myself, and then also seeing like the beauty of people just like showing up to worship and doubt and and doubting at the same time, like the two things can coexist. You can still worship God like so beautifully, yeah, and still have so much doubt and questions. And yeah, I don't know. It's just been a really, really cool like thing. Like, I'm happily humbled. Like, please, God, like keep on putting me in my place. Like, I'm not above any of it.

SPEAKER_00 33:13

Well, I do think you are a pretty humble person as well.

SPEAKER_03 33:16

Well, no, this is awkward, but I know I'm just kidding. I don't, I mean, I don't think I I wasn't like, oh my gosh, I'm better than you. It's just like you you look back on like seasons of your life and the way that you carry yourself, and you're like, wow, I really could have been more understanding in this area. Yeah, you know that's fair. It's not like you're intentionally doing it, or if I was intentional, intentionally feeling those feelings, but like, um, but yeah, anyways, I just think that that's a really beautiful idea.

SPEAKER_00 33:42

Well, and your dad, we watched your dad gave the homily this Sunday, which was about the Trinity, but it um in his homily today, he spoke about belief. And one of the things that he, you know, kind of challenged people on was to ask them, Do you believe? You know, right after the homily, we are going to say the creed. So in the Mass, after the homily, we recite the Nicene or the Apostles' Creed, basically stating exactly line by line what we believe. And you know, it just becomes second nature to you where you just say, Hey, this is what I believe.

SPEAKER_03 34:17

You just start mumbling it.

SPEAKER_00 34:18

And he challenged everybody and said, Okay, do you believe it? And so when you say it, yeah, and and challenge your beliefs. And I and I love, you know, we've talked about that a couple of times in different um, you know, podcasts. Like challenging your beliefs is a sign that you are actually trying to grow closer to God, whether you're actually challenging your beliefs to get away from him or not, challenging your beliefs. I think God would much prefer people to do that than to sit in stagnant and just say, Hey, yeah, this is just my life, so this is what I do. And there's been so much beauty when you hear of people who have challenged their beliefs. Yeah, so much has come from that. So much of what the disciples and Jesus talked about was challenging people and their beliefs. Yeah. Um, and yeah, I think that's a great interpretation of that. I really like that.

SPEAKER_02 35:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:11

So next.

Pentecost And Confession Explained

SPEAKER_00 35:13

We've got two more. As as always, we get oh wait, hang on. Uh wait, did we miss a gospel potentially?

SPEAKER_03 35:23

Did we do we did May May 3rd?

SPEAKER_00 35:27

Did we do May 10th? Yep. May 17th, and then May 24th is um missing. It's missing. Hold on. Look it up really quick. Okay. Hold please.

SPEAKER_03 35:39

I'm trying to think of something funny that's happened lately. Oh, um, I just spilled tea all over Ali.

SPEAKER_00 35:44

You also you hang on, you didn't spill you like basically just threw it.

SPEAKER_03 35:47

I threw it onto her lap. She's been staying with us because she tore her ACL or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 35:53

Or whatever, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:54

So she's in our handicaps.

SPEAKER_00 35:56

Oh, and it's Pentecost Sunday, is the one we're missing.

SPEAKER_03 35:59

Oh, wow. I was like, man, I knew there was ascension. There was a lot of feast days this well, it's Easter season. You're right. You're right. Okay, sorry, Allie. Yeah. Intermission over. Okay, this is the Pentecost Sunday, John 20, 19 through 23. On the evening of that first day of the week, when the doors were locked where the disciples were for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in their midst and said to them, Peace be with you.

SPEAKER_00 36:26

I was just gonna get you to go.

SPEAKER_03 36:28

When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. The disciples rejoiced when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, Peace be with you, as the Father has sent me, so I send you. And when he has said this, uh he breathed on them and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit, receive the Holy Spirit, whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.

SPEAKER_00 36:51

Could you imagine being in that room?

SPEAKER_03 36:53

Be like, no, no, no, don't give me that power.

SPEAKER_00 36:55

I'm okay, I'm good.

SPEAKER_03 36:56

No, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 36:57

Um for any of our non-Catholic listeners, um, if you're out there, um, this is part of the um uh scriptural backing for the sacrament of reconciliation.

SPEAKER_03 37:11

Yes, and those are the disciples that he is speaking to.

SPEAKER_00 37:15

Yes, so he's telling the disciples, whoever sins you retain are retained, whoever sins you forgive are forgiven. Um, and the cool thing about the Catholic Church is we have what's called apostolic succession. So every priest can trace their priestly lineage, so of course, not their parents, but their who ordained them, who ordained that person all the way back, it goes all the way back to Christ. So that is where we believe the authority comes from because the priest in that time of reconciliation is acting in persona christi, in the person of Christ. Christ is the one present through the priest, not the priests themselves.

SPEAKER_03 37:52

Yes. So side facts. Yeah. Yeah, Pentecost, Holy Spirit.

SPEAKER_00 37:57

He's down here.

SPEAKER_03 37:58

He is here, he is with us. What a gift.

SPEAKER_00 38:00

What a gift. I feel like you were like, what else are we gonna talk about on this one? I think let's throw it in because it's so similar to the the feast of the holy trinity. I feel like they play off each other. Why don't we read that one and then we can just talk about the Trinity briefly?

SPEAKER_03 38:13

Cool. Is that the next one? Yeah. Oh, okay, here.

SPEAKER_00 38:16

Oh, okay. Um so that is uh the Feast of Pentecost, which again, I don't know if we actually said it. The Feast of Pentecost is the descent of the Holy Spirit. Yeah. So it is um a celebration in the Catholic Church. I believe it's like the it's always X amount of Sundays after, I think it's seven or eight Sundays after Easter. Um, it's a celebration of the Holy Spirit and and coming down to earth and being the presence that's with us. And you wear red. And we wore red to church.

SPEAKER_03 38:49

We were all colorful.

John 3:16 And Living Faith Quietly

SPEAKER_00 38:50

Um May 31st, uh the solemnity of the Most Holy Trinity, John three, sixteen through eighteen. For God so loved the world that he gave. I can do the sixteen. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, so that those who believe in him might not perish, but might have eternal life. For God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him will not be condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. I think it this is almost a a completely different verse than the first one in May, where it talked about if if you don't believe, just believe in the works. You know, if you don't believe in what I say, believe in the works.

SPEAKER_02 39:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:41

Um and I know they they work in concert together because they're saying just believe in him for whatever reason.

SPEAKER_03 39:46

Just believe in it.

SPEAKER_00 39:47

Just believe in him. But um I just find that very interesting. Just appealing to different and both written by John.

SPEAKER_03 39:53

Right.

SPEAKER_00 39:53

Um, you know, John three versus John 14.

SPEAKER_03 39:57

So classic. For God so loved the world that he gave his only son.

SPEAKER_00 40:02

That makes you think C L I, right?

SPEAKER_03 40:04

I never understood this as a child, to be honest. I was like, okay, well.

SPEAKER_00 40:09

So what?

SPEAKER_03 40:10

I truly I think embarrassed to say as a child. I was like, okay, like the whole world suffering and just your son, but like I mean, and I don't know. I don't have a like a follow-up to that. That was just a side note.

SPEAKER_00 40:24

Just a side note. Well, I think it's when you dig into it, it's just uh I don't know. It's a I think you can search for a lot more meaning in that verse, but often I think ultimately oh that's see that one's for Connor. He on the drive home last night, he was like, Hey, on your podcast, you say ultimately when you're ready to like drop the hammer on on like your point.

SPEAKER_03 40:48

I don't even think I caught it.

SPEAKER_00 40:49

Um and I literally was just about to do it, and then I was like, Well, let's hear it. Let's hear it.

SPEAKER_03 40:54

Ultimately, what's the point?

SPEAKER_00 40:56

I think there's not much more to read into it. That's my take on this gospel. To me, this is a a fact, not a parable.

SPEAKER_03 41:06

And I maybe I'm dipping into Father Longenecker's reflection that you're about to share, but I liked like literally the one verse that you were like, hey, can you read this? The idea that like it's just it's so much easier to just live your faith. Like, there's no need to explain, over-explain things. And on that note, I feel like I'm entering we're entering a season and I'm trying like trying to navigate like how to best do this. But we're I'm entering a season, I don't know, I can't speak for you, where I'm kind of just tired of hearing us talk.

SPEAKER_00 41:38

I can tell that, by the way. Like I am just like really feeling like you say as we're having a podcast 40 minutes in, which this has been a good conversation.

SPEAKER_03 41:49

I I like like talking to you, but I don't know what it was or who I was talking to. Maybe I was just talking to my dad or just having a conversation with somebody. And um, I've just been like really, really trying hard to like like just like bite my tongue and listen. And like like the way that like I felt leaving those conversations. I'm like, wow, like I am missing out on so much in this world because I'm just not listening as much as I would like to. Yeah. Why are you smiling at me like that? Because we're on a podcast talking, yapping away. We'd like to be.

SPEAKER_00 42:21

Well, that a little bit, and also I have been in those conversations with you. Yeah. Where I'm like, oh, I don't think she's listening.

SPEAKER_03 42:30

Yeah, it's tough to keep me engaged.

SPEAKER_00 42:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:33

But like Hang on, and I personally yap too much.

SPEAKER_00 42:35

Sorry.

SPEAKER_03 42:36

Trying really, really hard to just like ask like follow-up questions and like I just really feel like I've been outing myself. I've been doing a lot of self-work lately.

SPEAKER_00 42:43

Yeah, and hang on, you're doing great. I will commend you on that.

SPEAKER_03 42:46

We I don't know, it just like I feel like you learn so much from other people. Yeah. And I just really want to like start engaging more with other people, but also to the what I was saying earlier, like this idea that like our faith is meant to be lived. And I think that's what we do when we engage in conversation and have relationships with people. We there's always something to learn. And what was it that I was reading? It's talking about how like we are basically with we need to acknowledge like every human being as like this really holy, beautiful like creation, and like I just don't think I do that enough. And like it's just so easy to get let our preconceived judgments get into the way, but like everybody has something so beautiful to offer, whether or not like they have this like really intimate faith, or they believe the same thing that I do, like they were created by like the same God, and like I I just need to do a better job, like listening and living my faith in that way. Like, I feel like I'm past the point of explaining why I believe what I believe. I'm not even really that good at explaining it, to be honest.

SPEAKER_00 43:50

Uh, I think you I'm good.

SPEAKER_03 43:52

I like to reflect on things and like the way that God speaks to us. I just I don't know. I just like I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 43:59

Well, I think It's gonna be your amazing superpower the more that you do that because you do have a great way of um trying to reach people where they're at. And so the more that you listen, the more you'll be able to use that superpower.

SPEAKER_02 44:12

Yeah. Well thanks. We'll see about that.

SPEAKER_00 44:14

And you are very good at it.

SPEAKER_02 44:15

So this is a very raw in the moment thing now, I feel put on the spot.

SPEAKER_00 44:19

I think listen, I appreciate you saying that as I I know I can I always talk on the wrong side. I talk on the wrong side of the mic and you keep it this far away from your mouth.

SPEAKER_03 44:28

It's just in it look at these mega microphones, mic phones, microphones, mega mega microphones, mega microphones. They're just so big and then the Yeah, but you gotta talk into it.

SPEAKER_00 44:37

Oh, I'm talking into it. Oh no. Um No, and I think people appreciate you being vulnerable, you know?

SPEAKER_03 44:47

Well.

SPEAKER_00 44:48

And I appreciate it. And most importantly, I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_03 44:50

It's okay. I don't need the validation. I just wanted a space to share and yap as I say that I want to listen to people more. So, Joe, tell me. Tell me what your thoughts are.

Trinity As Mystery We Can Live

SPEAKER_00 45:00

Well, my thoughts are it's time to do our marriage meeting and talk about um this reflection from uh Father Longenecker uh about the Holy Trinity. Um so of course this uh Sunday, May 31st, is the celebration of the Holy Trinity, and I just thought this reflection really sums up um not just how I feel about the Trinity, but how I feel about faith in general. Um and we've already stepped on it a little bit, but I think it's a good way to close out this uh this count the fruit. Dear brothers and sisters, every year when Trinity Sunday rolls around, preachers are reminded that it is almost impossible to preach about the Holy Trinity without lapsing into heresy. This is because the doctrine of the Trinity is so nuanced and complex, and in efforts to explain the Trinity, using examples and illustrations, we inevitably make minor mistakes fostering misunderstandings. I prefer, therefore, to rely on a favorite definition about mystery, and that is a mystery is something that can be experienced even if it cannot be exp explained. So for example, love is a mystery. How would you explain love to an alien from outer space? Would you say it's a warm feeling inside, and they would say, you mean like when you drink hot chocolate? Or you might say it's a close bond with another person, and they might say, You mean like super glue? You get my point. He I can read it in his voice too.

SPEAKER_03 46:21

I was like, that sounds like something he would say.

SPEAKER_00 46:24

Love, like every mystery, is something that can be experienced even though it cannot be explained. Likewise with the Trinity, we experience the Trinity all around us. The whole world is structured on the Trinity. Elements have three forms solid, gas, liquid. He forgot about plasma. Music has three basic components melody, harmony, and rhythm. There are three primary colors that combine to form a vast array of colors. The examples from the world around us can be multiplied by using our powers of observation and imagination. The Trinity we experience most simply and profoundly is the trinity of our body, mind, and spirit. Like the three persons of the Holy Trinity, our body, mind, and spirit are distinct and yet not distinct. Body is one with spirit and mind, mind is one with body and spirit, spirit is one with body and mind. We are healthy and whole as we experience balance and unity in body, mind, and spirit. We are out of balance, wounded and disordered when sin disrupts the unity and balance that God desires to build within us. The life of faith the life of faith is a life that is ordered in our body, mind, and spirit in an intimate, sacramental union with God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. This is why the invocation of the Holy Trinity is woven into the liturgy of the Church. We begin in the name of the Father and Son and Holy Spirit, and end with the Trinitarian blessing. The liturgy is structured in three parts opening, ministry of the Word, and Ministry of the Eucharist. We echo the Trinity in the Sanctus, the Angus Dei, and the Creed itself follows a Trinitarian structure. Therefore, if the Trinity is a mystery that can be experienced even if it cannot be explained, then the primary way we enter into that experience is by opening our minds and hearts to deep truths embedded in the liturgy. If the Trinity seems remote and confusing, why not set aside the quest to explain and enter instead the quest to experience?

SPEAKER_02 48:16

Enter to experience.

SPEAKER_00 48:18

And I think that is a phenomenal way to end.

SPEAKER_02 48:20

I love it.

SPEAKER_00 48:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:21

Well, thank you guys for listening.

Goodbye And Keep Growing Together

SPEAKER_00 48:24

Goodbye, camera.

SPEAKER_02 48:25

Goodbye, camera. Um, and let's keep growing together. Let's keep growing together.

SPEAKER_00 48:30

Bye, y'all.

SPEAKER_02 48:31

Bye.