Discerning the Deaconate: Interview with Dcn James (Katies Dad!)

We trade our usual studio feel for a family-farm recording with Deacon Dad and a very real background chorus of baby life, dogs, and interruptions. We dig into discernment, what a Catholic deacon actually does, and why saying yes often comes before you feel ready. 
• live-audience chaos and a quick family roll call 
• peaks and pits with newborn sleep and early mornings 
• praying the outdoor Stations of the Cross as a community 
• the first nudge toward the permanent diaconate 
• a Diocesan Youth Conference adoration moment that changed everything 
• what “deacon” means and how deacons serve alongside priests 
• why parishes can feel different while staying fully Catholic 
• Roman Rite structure and variety across languages and rites 
• why priests are usually celibate and why some are married 
• the vow permanent deacons take regarding celibacy after widowhood 
• capacity, humility, and “God help me” as a real prayer 
• deacon ministry as a couple and the hidden work of spouses 
• formation as a lifelong process shared with family and community 
• marriage meeting idiom quiz and the Chin-family phrase struggle 

An exclusive from Dery Media Podcasts. Explore diverse perspectives and enrich your knowledge at derymedia.com. Telling stories that matter, sparking meaningful discussions.

Transcript

Live Farm Intro And Guests

SPEAKER_03 0:01

Hello, world. We are back and better than ever.

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Hello.

SPEAKER_03 0:07

With our first live audience.

SPEAKER_00 0:10

We do have a live audience.

SPEAKER_03 0:11

Cue the applause. Did you hear that, everybody? There's like thousands of people here.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

That was terrible.

SPEAKER_03 0:29

Do you want to know why we have a live audience?

SPEAKER_00 0:32

Why?

SPEAKER_03 0:34

That was your cue to say why, in case you're wondering. I said why. Oh. Oh, well, I'm so glad you asked. Because we have a very, very popular, well-known and loved celebrity in the house.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 0:54

Would you like to say who it is?

SPEAKER_00 0:57

No, you need to introduce.

SPEAKER_03 0:58

Okay, well, this is um I I should have thought of a funny name for him. Deacon Dad. Other known as, also known as James Chin. Deacon James Chin.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

Otherwise known as your dad.

SPEAKER_03 1:10

Otherwise, that's that was the right way to say that. Otherwise known as my father. Me Padre. Dad, say hello.

SPEAKER_02 1:19

Hello.

SPEAKER_00 1:21

Oh, that was a that was a good hello.

SPEAKER_03 1:23

Yeah, that was a good hello. Anyways, we're where are we?

SPEAKER_00 1:26

Why are you asking me?

SPEAKER_03 1:28

Because I'm I'm the only one talking here.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

We're having to share a mic. This is Katie and I's first time sharing a mic, and it's gonna go poorly. Dad, how do you think it's gonna go? If it's good, it always goes well. Oh, he thinks Dad thinks it's gonna go well.

SPEAKER_03 1:44

Mic drop.

SPEAKER_00 1:45

Yeah, mic drop. I think we're gonna be fighting back and forth over the microphone.

SPEAKER_03 1:48

We already are.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

Yeah. And you're just gonna hear like random echoes of our voices ahead of us of something. I have another mic if you like it. You have another mic? Yeah. Oh, well, too late. We're here.

SPEAKER_03 1:59

Also, that if you hear, um, we also have another special guest that is Miss Mary Josephine Devine in the background. She is yawning as we speak. She is ready for a nap. Um, but, anyways, that was a very long introduction to um the vine. I'm Joe.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

I'm Katie's all out of sorts. All out of sorts. Here, let's start at that again. This is the vine. I'm Katie. And I'm Joe. And this is the vine. And that's dad. I am the dad. Yeah, he's the dad. This is going phenomenal.

SPEAKER_03 2:37

This is going so well.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

This is great. Uh and that's MJ. Wow. So we thought it would be fun to have your dad on a podcast, uh, not only because he's a special person to us, but dad has a lot of insight into not only his own faith life, but a lot of the faith lives of people that he's impacted through being a deacon. Um, and ultimately, Dad, we just think you have a cool story. Yeah. Well, I it's my pleasure to be here.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

And for the record, I'm not receiving any remuneration for anything I say.

Peaks And Pits With Baby MJ

SPEAKER_00 3:11

That's right. He's getting, we're not paying him in support of the vine. That's right. We're just uh I'll pay you in manual labor help. How about that? Does that work? I'll take prayers and indulgences as well. Okay, okay. We can do indulgences, we can figure something out. Um, so dad, I don't know how often you listen to the podcast, but we do this every every time. We do something called peaks and pits. So it's the highlight of your week and the low light of your week. So, like what was one of the toughest times or when you were kind of feeling the lowest? So I'll let Katie start.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

Always. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

So Katie's gonna start and then maybe we'll go to me and then we'll finish with you, Dad. How about that? Sounds like a plan. All right.

SPEAKER_03 3:56

All right. Um, peaks and pits. I never am prepared, even though I already know, always know this is coming. But I will start with the pit. Um, you're hearing it. She's screaming at the moment. I think we're just coming out of a growth spurt. Um, she's almost six months old, so I think that's about the time that things, you know, start shifting and changing and growing is just really hard. And being a baby is really hard. Yeah. Bye, MJ. Have a good nap. But um, but yeah, she's just been, you know, doing her thing. And we've just had a rough couple of nights um last week. So that would be the pit, I would say. Last night she peed on my hand. That wasn't fun. But a peek would be, I mean, this right now, like being here at the farm, other also known as Saluda, South Carolina, uh, with the family. And we just did like a little stations of the cross, little meditation on Friday here outside. We've been working a lot on that. Um, and it was just, it's just been like beautiful weather, beautiful weekend, and very peaceful. And this has been my peak for sure. Okay, your turn.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

That's a good peek in a pit. I don't like sharing a mic with you. I know. I like I want to just like comment on everything you say. Um the and I have to just be patient. I would say my peak was definitely um, I agree, just like being here and being surrounded by I don't know, it's just like it's a qu it's a quiet, you know, when you're here and it's um, you know, you just get good reflection time. And honestly, it's nice because I get to turn my brain off when I'm here because uh mom and dad watch MJ and I don't have to, and it's really nice because I can then just kind of turn my brain off and not think about anything. So that's probably one of my favorite parts. Uh Pitt, I would say I had to get up at um 4 45 this morning um for work, and then also I was up at what time did she pee on your hands?

SPEAKER_03 5:56

You were probably awake at three, and then I don't think you really went back to bed. Yeah, so that's when she peed on my hands. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:03

So that was awesome. I would say that was probably my least favorite part of the week. Um, but we're here. We're alive, awake, awake, alert, and enthusiastic.

SPEAKER_03 6:11

Well, considering I said my name was Joe, I don't know if I'm alive.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

Well, Katie also ran five miles, so she doesn't know what's going on. Um, all right, Dad, what was your peak and pit? Wow.

SPEAKER_02 6:22

I didn't actually prepare for this, but I know it's a pop quiz.

SPEAKER_03 6:26

Just like me, that's where I get it from, people.

SPEAKER_02 6:29

Peaks and pit, pit and peaks. Okay, where do I start? I think my peak, that's the easiest, is coming home and knowing that my little granddaughter, MJ, was here. And I was so excited and got into the car because I gave the dogs uh a grooming test at PetSmart, and they did very well, and they turned out to be beautiful dogs, even though it turned out four hours. It was so long. Anyway, anyway, so got in the car, got so excited to see her, and when I got here, she was sleeping. Oh, she was sleeping. That was my pit.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

Oh, your pit was when you got here, she was sleeping. She was sleeping.

SPEAKER_03 7:19

Unfortunately, she's sleeping at least three times out of the day, so she's always sleeping.

SPEAKER_02 7:25

So, but then I then my peak, well, she woke up. That's right. And it's so nice when a young, innocent little baby looks at you and gives you the greatest little smile, like, I like you. I'm happy. So, what more can a grandpa ask for?

SPEAKER_00 7:45

Yeah, there's not much more a grandpa can ask for. Uh, I think we also have a dog in in the room that we're recording in, and I think this dog is throwing up while we're recording the podcast. So um, yeah, so this is really, I think, just amazing.

SPEAKER_03 8:01

Amazing podcast episode you have ever listened to.

Stations Of The Cross Community

SPEAKER_00 8:05

Yeah, it's going great. Um, so yeah, Molly, I hope you're okay. She seems to be doing doing just fine. Yeah, we're doing great. Um yeah, Dad, I thought it was also really cool, you know. Um you know, we mentioned um that we had Stations of the Cross here. And one of the things at the farm that's really special is um as a family, we built um this outdoor stations of the cross. Um, and it has, you know, all the stations, and you get to walk around the property that you guys have here and you know, um just kind of be one with nature as you're walking through the stations um outside and just building it as a family was really cool, and then getting to experience you know, and we've done it a couple times as a family, but this was the first time with MJ, and just being able to like walk around the stations with her, I thought was really cool. Katie didn't have any thoughts on that. I put the mic in Katie's very distracted by the dog throw up.

SPEAKER_03 9:09

Um, it's been really special though. Um I think just like watching her walk around with us and like giggle while we're praying, and like I mean, even something as simple as like Molly, the dog, my parents' dog, rolling around in the dust while we're at each station and just like knowing how much thought and prayer went into um building these stations and then seeing it like come to fruition with the whole community has been awesome. And I also just like have a lot of hope for what the future looks like. So, anyways, that kind of brings us to our podcast today, which we could talk about the stations and like the hopes and dreams of the farm forever, which could be its own episode. Um, but today we just wanted to talk to my dad about kind of his discernment journey, his testimony, and um what led him to where he is today and why he chose to be a deacon and all the fun stuff that comes with that.

SPEAKER_00 10:08

Well, one of the things too we forgot to mention was I mean, I think you guys had what 20, 25 people show up uh to join us in the Stations of the Cross on Saturday. We did.

SPEAKER_02 10:19

It was full of um what we call our crises to friends from the church, our Lady of the Lake.

SPEAKER_00 10:26

That's all and it's all it was all a um they all attend Cresillo, right? They sure do. Yeah, and it's just cool to see um that community that you guys have built. And I think that's you know, the um the whole genesis of our podcast was wanting to talk about community, I feel like, and and that how to grow community and the importance of it in especially, you know, in everybody's lives, but you know, from our perspective from a young adult life, um, but we can see the community that you and mom have built, especially through Crocio, um, has been something really special. And so, you know, just more insights. But Katie, I know you have the questions. Oh, yeah. So we'll get we'll get going on the on the prepped questions for our our esteemed guest. And and we have cleaned up the dog vomit. So we are we are ready to go.

The Nudge Toward Diaconate

SPEAKER_03 11:17

We hopefully have finally got it together after 11 minutes into this podcast, but this is pretty normal for us. Um, okay, first question, Dad. Are you ready?

SPEAKER_02 11:25

Alrighty.

SPEAKER_03 11:26

Well, you shouldn't say you're not ready because I already sent you all these questions, so you should have prepared a prepared monologue, is what I am expecting. Okay, the first one's easy. Uh, how did you discern becoming a deacon?

SPEAKER_02 11:41

How did I discern to becoming a deacon? Well, there's the um the calling that begins when there's a nudge. And then the program itself provides uh at least two years of discernment through your formation. And then of course, with uh academic formation, which is another four years, um, so a total of five to six years, we're always discerning on whether this is what we are called to do. So um so when we start off when it first began, um I think prayer life is important for everybody. And when you start with prayer life, you open your heart and your eyes and your ears to everything God has to offer. And uh although it's nice if he would talk directly like these mics to us, he doesn't. He speaks to us in in ways that only God can talk to us. Um basically through the Holy Spirit. And these th movements, if you will, in our spirit incline us to develop ideas and concepts and things in one's mind that says, hmm, that's not a bad idea. One thing that you always have to start with is that if ideas come to you out of love or goodness, you know it came from God. And I'm gonna sneeze.

SPEAKER_03 13:20

Bless you.

SPEAKER_02 13:24

Excuse me.

SPEAKER_00 13:25

Um we'll put a giant like trigger warning sound effect there before. Check, check, mic, check, mic. Was there was there a specific though? You mentioned like it it kind of starts off with that nudge, and if an idea comes out of love and goodness. So was there like a specific instance for you where that absolutely what was it?

DYC Adoration That Changed Him

SPEAKER_02 13:48

It was uh my children going to DYC and I volunteered to be a chaperone. I remember this clearly because um it was my first time to go to an event uh hosting 800 some kids uh at um at this retreat center. I'm trying to think, Oak. White White Oak White Oak. And um just experiencing uh uh adoration in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament and all these young adults, I would call them, you know, teenagers adoring Christ and just uh pure adoration and reverence. Um just an amazing, amazing sight to see. There was no um there was uh quiet music in the background. Um and I would have to say that's probably more impactful than any type of um um I guess worship service that uses bands and and gets people to cry out and sing and things like that. It was just pure connection. And I saw I saw I saw uh teenagers cry and fall to the floor, and I saw many of them going to confession and uh it was just a sight to behold, and there were like eight priests that are all around, and and then I'm just looking in awe at the blessed sacrament, and I'm like, boy God, thank you for allowing me to be here. Yeah, and then he said, be a deacon.

SPEAKER_03 15:38

He said it loud and I think we all heard that that DYC.

SPEAKER_02 15:42

Be a deacon.

SPEAKER_03 15:44

Wow, it's crazy how much of like our lives were impacted by DYC. And if you are not in the diocese, it's literally stands for the diocesan youth conference, which was um something that I think like our whole family was involved in. Like it's mainly hosted by teenagers, it's for teenagers in high school. That's where Joe and I served um on something called the e-team to put it together. Allie was a part of it. Nicole, my sister, has gone to it. Like we've all been somehow integrated into it. And I didn't realize, Dad, how much I knew you volunteered for it, but I didn't realize how much of an impact it also had on you.

SPEAKER_02 16:23

Oh, neither did I till I went. And like like the the good Saint Thomas said, uh, my response was okay, Jesus, prove it.

What A Deacon Actually Does

SPEAKER_03 16:35

Yeah. Which is really, really awesome that we can all kind of um look back on it with those fond memories. Um, and I guess, you know, I really should have started by asking you, can you describe what a deacon is? Because we have lots of friends who listen that may not be Catholic and might not understand what that term is.

SPEAKER_00 16:53

Shame on them for not being Catholic.

SPEAKER_03 16:56

We say lovingly. But um, but yeah, could you just describe what a deacon is in the Catholic Church?

SPEAKER_02 17:01

Wow. Well, that's a very good question. Um deacon is uh the modern name for the original name that began in Greek called or is it Latin? No, it's Greek, diacona. And diacona means um to serve. And um so for all clergy, uh, priest included, they began as a deacon. And for for for m young men who are going to be priests, we call them transitional deacons. Whereas uh for uh adult men such as myself, we are called uh permanent deacons. In other words, we do not aspire to become priests. Nevertheless, both cases are that as deacons we carry with us the same faculty, um and but our primary ministry is in service. Now, interestingly, um for priests and for bishops and for even the pope, they are deacons. And they still are deacons, but um having been ordained as a priest, they are also a priest, which we would call sacerdotal uh powers as well. That is, they are given the right to um consecrate the host and provide can holy communion and confession and and all of those uh sacraments that uh permanent deacons uh can't do. In fact, for the most part, permanent deacons, we are more in service. Our job uh basically is if you can think of a a shepherd herding sheep. Um shepherds actually have assistants that go out and they help um herd the sheep and bring them to to the corral or how have you. We are we are nothing more than the servants that help the shepherd. In this case, the shepherd is the priest or the bishop, and we we help with um with bringing in the flock um to wherever um we're called to do. So as a permanent deacon, um that could be just about anything that helps with um inspiring and bringing God uh to the community.

SPEAKER_00 19:38

You're like a border collie for the church. You're like herding all the sheep into the into the pens and everything, right? I never imagined myself being a dog, but the priest is the guy like commanding the border collie.

SPEAKER_03 19:52

Have you ever seen those videos where it's like they're like click click this all?

SPEAKER_00 19:57

I know what you well they yeah, it's a little more intense. They whistle, they have like pitched whistles. But yeah, they have pitched whistles and the dogs know to go left or right depending on that's the priest. We'll have to show you that video, Dad. You'll love it. It's literally these these dogs, like the guy will whistle like high and the dog goes left, and then he'll whistle low and the dog goes right, and then he'll do like a a weird tune, and then all of a sudden all the dog the dogs push all the sheep back. It's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_02 20:23

Okay. Well, you know, as a dog, I guess I guess I can still take the compliment because even dogs eat scraps.

SPEAKER_03 20:31

We love dogs here, do we not? We have lots of farm dogs of different of different races, of different breeds.

SPEAKER_02 20:39

Of different personalities.

SPEAKER_03 20:41

We love the farm dogs. Oh yes. Um, but yeah, I thank you for explaining that. Actually, I didn't really think about being a dog.

SPEAKER_02 20:50

No, I I can't say I've thought about that, but I also have never really thought about the role of a deacon as being like the assistant to the priest, but in well, we we definitely when it when we're even though the priest is is by virtue also a deacon, um because there's just so many things um that happen, and and in fact, um we would say that uh that there's a a diacona in service of of Jesus that that um he was always in service to to the folks he shepherd. So we carry that um that side of the stole in in terms of all of of bringing Jesus to to folks to the community that need him the most.

SPEAKER_03 21:41

Well, and in a way, sorry, you have a different outreach, like you are a married lay person with a different um community that maybe priests don't have. So clergy, he's not lay.

SPEAKER_02 21:55

Well, that's that's it's one of the confusions in in uh with most folks. As they think uh think we're some type of um um like subpar priest. We actually carry distinct roles. Um uh as a as a permanent deaconate. Um we are not priests. You know, our our role, uh what we do in a church is uh purely in service. Uh yet, like I said, not as a dog, but as a person who who reaches out uh inspired by the Holy Spirit, that would involve education, that would be uh education or bringing food to the hungry or um living out the beatitudes. Living out the beatitudes, those are all important, and we set the example for that because quite frankly, the the priest has a lot of things to do. But um being being that they're priest and and they have to spend a lot of time in the confessional and yeah pr providing and doing mass and um anointing of the sick, those the a lot of the sacramentals, um there's only there's only a few hours in the day, so um and they have to like sleep at some point.

SPEAKER_00 23:12

Uh absolutely so well it's almost the way you're describing it, I've never thought about it like this, but the the deacons are almost, you know, if you think of the church as a business, you know, which you know is not necessarily a good thing to do all the time, but just for the imagining part of it, you guys, the deacons are almost like the sales, the sales force for the church, right? Of the small business. The priest is the the owner running the small business, and the deacons are the ones who are tasked to to go out and and sell the product of the church, right? Like to convert people, to bring them in and and kind of know those inner workings of the business. That's my salesman side speaking.

SPEAKER_03 23:49

Yeah, let's hear from the um the ordained deacon over here, if that was correct.

Why Parishes Worship Differently

SPEAKER_02 23:55

Well, Joe, we would put um we would put Jesus as the CEO, okay? Yeah, um and and since this is the Church of Christ, um the uh the roles of of priest and deacons are are specific to meeting the community needs. Everything begins with love. Yeah. And um and of course the sacraments is is uh by far the the gifts that we receive to make it easier for us as Catholics, um when we receive it to help purify our souls, right? Um whereas the deacons, um and I guess I guess a better way of saying it, Joe and Katie, would be we are um almost as symbiotic roles. Um we're the we're um definitely the priests uh uh as our pastors are our shepherds in our community. And as as deacons, um, we take our cue from our pastors because every community is a little bit different, believe it or not. Um for example, um a homily I could write for Our Lady of the Lake might not work for Our Lady of the Hills. Yeah. And how is that? Well, because the communities are even though we're all Catholic, um, the Holy Spirit moves differently in all of the communities in a in a way that um um in a way that actually works, but we just don't understand how it that is. Yeah. So um so it the the shepherd being the pastor, the priest, is the one who s who sets the tone and helps identify the ship, if you will, um and um and moving the community differently. And so, you know, uh I would say to the crowd out there listening is, you know, be patient and try not to compare because w the way one priest might run one church is different from another church because the spirit understands that we're all different. The communities in some extent are different, different cultures. Yeah. And um, you know, so there's not just uh, you know, well, one page fits all.

SPEAKER_00 26:34

Yeah. Well, I think that's one of the things I love most about being Catholic is that you have the um the diversity of of how you want to worship. You know, we're we're given the guidelines, um, and and you know, we have to follow a lot of the rules, but there are some wiggle rooms where you get so many different versions of worship. And ultimately I think that's beautiful because we are all different, every single one of us is different, and the Holy Spirit has to move through us all in different ways because you know, the way that Katie's going to be moved in a in a service and in a mass is probably going to be different than I will, you know. But we both need to have our spiritual needs met. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 27:18

So um when we take a look at the liturgy, for example, that comes out of the Roman Missal, yeah. Uh there are prescribed sets of ways of doing something. I mean, the priest can't just make something up in the process. Um, he's got to follow what we call the Rubik's, which is what which is written in red, and anything in black is what he says. Um but if if the Roman Missal was one set way, it would it wouldn't be as thick as what you see on the altar today. Because if you open the Roman Missal, you'll find um different Eucharistic prayers, different prefaces, and then different words said for special holy days, solemnities, um uh celebrating feast days and saints' days. And then in fact, um, you know, whether whether we practice at Orientum or um oh gosh, I forgot the Latin word of it, but the the ones we're accustomed to were the priest faces of the people. Um, that's that's for the people.

SPEAKER_03 28:33

One of the fancy Latin terms.

SPEAKER_02 28:35

Right. And then the responses sometimes it's in English, sometimes it's in Greek, sometimes we respond in Latin. Yeah, sometimes it's in English. Um but uh oh, and then and then of course, um what uh as Catholics I believe there's uh 14 other types of rites out there that that qualify that we could go to Mass. Might not understand it because it could be a Marian rite, it could be uh so fun. It could be a Byzantine rite.

SPEAKER_03 29:07

Uh but we all know like the flow of the Mass.

SPEAKER_02 29:10

I truth is I haven't been to the the Eastern rites yet.

SPEAKER_03 29:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:15

But it's my understanding that um, you know, uh if as a Catholic, if we go to those rites as well on a Sunday, we would have uh met our obligation. And then of course, um with uh uh the uh Roman rite, it could be said in uh uh in any native language that uh the community is used to, which was um which was changed uh back after Vatican II.

SPEAKER_03 29:43

Well, I think that's something that I've really enjoyed about being Catholic is um it doesn't matter what church you go to, like I always find a home, no matter what rite it is, no matter what language we're speaking. Like we were even talking yesterday about what mass to bring MJ to because we've trying to figure out her nap schedule. And St. Williams was like, we've got an 8:30 a.m. Spanish Mass. And Joe and I looked at each other and we were like, well, we can go to the Spanish Mass, that would work out fine. Like we don't understand Spanish, but we know we under we understand the rhythm of the Mass. And I feel like that's something that I've always um felt at home and at peace with no matter where I am. And it's funny, where Joe and I live right now, we're going to a very traditional church, Our Lady of the Rosary, which is not how we grew up. We went to Our Lady of the Lake growing up and very um, I don't know, modern is that what you would how you would how would you describe Our Lady of the Lake?

SPEAKER_00 30:36

It's like just the I'd say it's like the pite the platonic, like what you just envisioned in like mid-2000s church. I don't know how to describe it. What would you describe it as?

SPEAKER_02 30:49

Oh, you it it's um well uh in the old days uh when Father Andrew was there, yeah, it was um it was it was very um uh its focus was centered um at the table and uh as if uh we're all seated around the state.

SPEAKER_03 31:10

Yeah, which I would totally say it's still kind of like that.

SPEAKER_02 31:14

And then um, of course, um with our our our current pastor, Father Dennis, he he mixes it up.

SPEAKER_03 31:23

Yeah, now you have Latin Mass there too.

SPEAKER_02 31:26

And we also have um uh uh we're one of three parishes in the state that uh has been allowed to do uh Latin Mass. Uh so we call that traditional Latin Mass. And um, you know, I everyone has their preferences, and obviously if um folks that um feel spiritually moved um to them, then uh we have that opportunity over at Our Lady of the Lake. And I've been to I've been to Masses a few times at the lake uh in Latin, and it's it's it's different.

SPEAKER_03 32:02

It's not your thing.

SPEAKER_02 32:05

No, I I you know I I it's well it's because uh I don't understand it as much as I probably should, but um it's kind of hard to understand the Latin.

Marriage Celibacy And Church Rules

SPEAKER_03 32:16

But yeah, I I I don't speak Latin very well, so well, just pointing out the differences, I feel like I I wasn't expecting Joe and I to end up at a traditional mass. And in fact, one of the we are one of the churches in the upstate that have married priests, which is rare. Um, but I kind of wanted to ask you, Dad, why like I feel like that's a point of confusion for a lot of people. Like, why can deacons get married? And for the most part, priests are not allowed to get married. And um, being in the South and a very Protestant culture, a lot of people don't understand why um why that is the case for us. And I I was just interested to see what you how you would explain that to people.

SPEAKER_02 32:54

Oh, that's a good point. Um Well, again, um in the Roman Rite, um your uh let's let's start let's start with this. Um there's nothing in the Bible that says priests can't be married. Okay. In fact, uh if you were to take a look at the Eastern rites, priests are married.

SPEAKER_00 33:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:19

And um not all of them, but some are married, the restrictions of which is that um their role, um, they can't become a bishop in that regard. Um whereas in the Latin rite or the um Roman rite, um um priests um that uh were never married and became seminarians, uh they take an oath, um, a vow uh that they're completely committed to the church. And and they would uh also take a vow of celibacy. Now uh in cases with married priest, um such as uh Father Lochnecker in your your parish, um he had previously been married. He was a Protestant um uh pastor at one time, and uh what, fifty years ago, um the Roman um Catholic Church uh considered uh allowing uh pastors from prior um from other denominations to come in and become Catholic priests, and uh and because they were married prior, uh which is is uh a sacrament in of itself that nobody can break.

SPEAKER_00 34:48

Because we acknowledge we acknowledge even if it's a Protestant wedding, if it's done in the name of the Holy Trinity, we acknowledge that wedding, correct?

SPEAKER_02 34:56

Oh, absolutely. Yeah absolutely. Um and so uh so being that that the wedding is sacramentally recognized, but then uh gave the opportunity for married uh pastors of another denomination to become Catholic priest, therein lies the opportunity for those those pastors to um um to become married priest. Now, when it comes to deacons, uh we actually permanent deacons, we do take a vow of celibacy. Um so the way it works essentially is this is if uh most of us are married, um we recognize that role, um that uh and it's important on us that uh the first priority is our married life.

SPEAKER_01 35:49

For sure.

SPEAKER_02 35:50

Our wives and our and our children. And then um when we get ordained and we take our vows, we we practice a vow of celibacy, meaning that in the event that um um let's say our wife pass away, then we are to remain celibate there moving forward. Yeah. Um so if um if I were a permanent deacon who wasn't married, uh-huh and or let's just say I was in formation and I was getting ready to take my vows and I wasn't married, then I would have to remain celibate like most of the other Catholic priests do.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

Yeah. I didn't know that. That well, yeah, that's interesting. I didn't realize that the if you become just a deacon, you still have to take a vow of celibacy. I I knew that uh that was the case, that deacons didn't remarry after their spouses passed, but I didn't know that was the the reason that it's a vow of celibacy. It is a vow of celibacy.

SPEAKER_02 36:54

So um so they really make you think if you're single and uh and you've been called to become a permanent deacon, then you have to uh really go through the works of of determining is this really a calling on your part?

Capacity Humility And Saying Yes

SPEAKER_00 37:11

That's awesome. Um one of the questions that uh I really like that you know, Katie and I, like she mentioned, we had some questions we talked about, and our word for the year, correct me if I'm wrong, is capacity, right? And it's just been something that Katie and I have been thinking about. And so one of the questions that we sent you was Um, did you feel like you had the capacity to be a deacon when you chose to do so, or did God call you to be a deacon and then he kind of gave you the capacity? Um because and where does that, you know, that timeline kind of fit in for you? Wow. Does that question make sense? It does make sense.

SPEAKER_02 37:49

I think my formation director would always say if we think we have a capacity before we even get ordained, then we're we're approaching it the wrong way.

SPEAKER_03 38:00

Right.

SPEAKER_02 38:01

Uh um we shouldn't one of the one of the processes of formation is to completely humble yourself. And um you humble yourself to the point of recognizing that you question whether this is do you have the ability to be a deacon? And by by questioning yourself, you you have to begin with humbling yourself and identifying basically how weak you really are. And uh well, and imagine this the twelve apostles, were they scholars in their own right?

SPEAKER_00 38:42

I mean in their own right, yeah, but they definitely yeah, but they weren't scholar. I mean, they not by trade.

SPEAKER_02 38:47

No, they weren't. And uh they were fishermen and they were they were just ordinary folks that uh um that they questioned uh that they knew something was good with following this man named Jesus. And they learned from him. He was the teacher. And trust me, they they were shaking in their boots most of the time, and they were questioning Jesus, you know, can we really do this? And what did he say? Go two by two, and and they made mistakes, and Jesus taught them about their mistakes, and as they learned and they went through it. So the real question more so is recognizing that um recognizing that really there's nothing to worry about. You just have to uh, you know, if you think you had the capacity, then you you're already ahead of yourself almost to the verge of saying, Well, I don't need God. Yeah. But uh but uh going through the formation, the only thing you you you pray for is God help me. And then there'll be moments there'll be moments that um that you'll be in front of folks or you'll know there's something to do, and there'll be the silent voice saying, be a deacon. Yeah and you just have to step up.

SPEAKER_03 40:15

Right.

SPEAKER_00 40:16

That yes is almost the most like the yes is the only thing that really matters.

SPEAKER_02 40:21

That's correct.

SPEAKER_03 40:22

You know, um in your bathroom on mom's side of the bathroom, mom has a little sticky note that says, I think God calls God does not call the qualified, but qualifies the called. And I feel like that's pretty relatable to what you're saying here is that you didn't have the capacity. Um nobody really does when they're called to do something so great as like a big like a vocation, but with each, you know, each discerning step you've taken, God continues to qualify you and continues to give you the capacity. And I think in, I guess, in the stage of life that we're in, the season of parenthood, for us, I feel like we've had very similar feelings. Like we knew we wanted to be parents and we tried really hard to be parents for a few years. And when it finally happened, it was like it kind of hit us like a ton of bricks. Like, wait a minute, we don't know how to do this. And of all people, we felt the most prepared in a sense of like we've got so much support. We have um we've our family, we have plenty of friends and families who have done this before that have are close to us, like what could go wrong? And nothing's going wrong, of course, but it's just that feeling of like, I am not capable of doing this on my own. And um, while yes, we do have family and we have support, like truly, we're not capable of doing it without God because it's a vocation, and a vocation is a calling from God. And if you are stepping into your calling from God, how can you do it without God?

SPEAKER_02 42:03

Well, you can't.

SPEAKER_03 42:04

Exactly. You'll just fail, which is what we do as humans naturally.

SPEAKER_02 42:10

That's right.

SPEAKER_03 42:11

Um, but yeah, anyways, I thought I mean that was a really beautiful explanation of your discernment. And I feel like you are very capable now, and people love you as a deacon and look forward to your Friday homilies.

SPEAKER_00 42:24

So many times I get a text from my grandmom who I think has both your number and uh uh Katie's mom's number, but for some reason she still texts me and she says, Can you ask James for a copy of his homily? It was really special today. I get that text like once, maybe twice a month. But I also remember used to tell me that you could tell if it was a a good or bad homily on whether she commented on it or not.

SPEAKER_02 42:51

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Grandma Pet is my um my my measuring stick, if you will.

SPEAKER_03 42:57

How you're doing as well of how I'm doing.

SPEAKER_02 43:00

But she's a she's a very special lady, and uh she sets the example for everybody, and her faith is uh has shown how it can extend down to the uh every family member of uh of the divine of the billion divines and gaskins on the gaskins.

Deacon Ministry As A Couple

SPEAKER_03 43:21

That's right. Well, I also wanted to touch on since we're talking on vocation, and you mentioned earlier um that the church honors like your marriage as your primary vocation, right? And then it's deaconate. However, if something were to happen, um mom's gonna live forever though, because she's the superwoman, so that's never gonna happen. But if for whatever reason she's not here and you're still a deacon, you have to remain celibate. Um I just kind of wanted to see what in your words, like how would you describe the difference of serving as a deacon versus serving as a father and the similarities and like how those two vocations are. I don't even know if you would say, would you say you have two vocations? Like how do they overlap? How do they parallel? How are they different? How have they helped you be better at one versus the other? Um does that make sense?

SPEAKER_02 44:13

No, no, no.

SPEAKER_03 44:15

It's a loaded question.

SPEAKER_02 44:16

It is. I think um one of the things we learned in formation, particularly with our director, um Deacon Andre, is that he always preached that um uh while I am bestowed the um uh the uh I won't say the word rank, but um while I'm ordained as a deacon, it's a couple's ministry. Yeah. Um and um much of what we do, we do together, your mom and I, when we are uh being called to do the work of of the Holy Spirit. And um a large part of what I have done could never be done without your mom's help. And she's always there by my side, and she's always there inspiring me, and she's always there telling me what I've could done better, and um and she's always there lit being my second year on homilies, and uh you so so in effect um they are the silent supporters that um should get more credit than than me. But uh they're a big part of um of what we do. And in fact, uh one deacon had said um, you know, I I I can be a a deacon of the word and she could be the deacon deaconess of hugs.

SPEAKER_03 45:58

The deaconess of hugs. All right.

SPEAKER_02 46:01

And and and between the two of us, then we uh our role in in what we do is uh praying together and and bringing God to people. Um uh in ever in in um and how the Holy Spirit wants us to do it.

SPEAKER_03 46:25

Yeah, absolutely. So how would you say um I which coming as somebody from the outside looking into your marriage, I definitely see how mom has supported you and your vocation. Um sorry, Molly's barking, we have a visitor.

SPEAKER_00 46:39

I don't think they can hear.

SPEAKER_03 46:41

Oh, never mind, in case you were wondering. But how would you say uh your vocation as a deacon has helped you as being like a father to us, like being a family man versus and vice versa. How has being a family man helped you be a deacon?

SPEAKER_00 46:59

To three crazy daughters.

SPEAKER_03 47:02

Wild.

SPEAKER_02 47:07

Um well first off, um you know, we we go through a process called formation, um, which is simply um uh learning about God in a way that changes us uh as deacons. But when you really think about what we're called to do, and you don't have to be a deacon. All of us are called to form. In fact, if people want to know the secret of getting into heaven, you really have to become like Christ.

SPEAKER_03 47:45

Whoa, crazy.

SPEAKER_02 47:47

Yeah, I mean, i i there's no other way. I mean that's that's that's the yeah, uh no one can get into heaven uh by themselves. Yeah. And and in order to get to to get uh, you know, the way that Christ died for us and and gave us the sacraments and everything, gave us the church. Um the reality is is that um everything he's done for us is to teach us how to become um like him. So we call that formation. Um and I think um what's important as a father is uh recognizing that everything I learn about myself, the good, the bad, the ugly, and in pursuit of forming, you you always form yourself. There's no end point. God's omnipotent. So it's about the process of of becoming closer to God, becoming like him, receiving his sacred heart. And um what um what needs to happen is that it's not just for me to consume, but to as deacons, you give it to your children, your friends, your um sorry, you can hear someone knocking.

SPEAKER_03 49:17

We have lots of visitors here at the farm, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:20

Your friends, your uh oh yeah. And um so as as a father, you the first role is your own children. Yeah, for sure. Okay, and and you let them know um what you've learned about Christ. And that's the neat thing about Crucio, is it's it's just being Catholic um on steroids. You know, every week we're praying. We're we're we're praying, we're learning more about Christ uh in our own ways, whether we're reading Matthew Kelly or the Bible or some deep theological book. It's really up to us. And then what's the third one? Um, priority study, and then action. Calling ourselves to do things that the Holy Spirit wants us to do, because the action we do is not um is not a list to get you into heaven. The action that we do forms our hearts into into that um Christ into Christ's heart. So uh so my my comment simply is this is that as a deacon, it's just a lot easier for us to explain it to our children, and our hope would be that you explain it to Mary Joe and to your friends because um um you know, um if if we can change the heart of two people and then two people can change the heart of four people, and then expand and it expand exponentially grows.

Idiom Quiz Marriage Meeting

SPEAKER_00 51:00

Well, I think that's awesome. And I think that's a a great way to end uh to end our interview with dad. Right? Did you have a marriage meeting? Oh, we're gonna do the marriage meeting. Um so we have a marriage meeting, Dad, and what the marriage meeting is, is every podcast Katie and I do, like it's either like a little game or I explain something to her that she's very confused about, or vice versa. Like we we did a bunch of stuff with MJ where she explained to me like why stuff was important. Um but Katie has a particular trait um that I find very funny and comes up on the podcast all the time. And oh, I don't know where oh Katie's going. Um I'm not going. I'm having that. But uh she has this particular trait that I believe you also share um that I find very funny. So, Katie, explain the trait and then I'll tell you what we're gonna do for this marriage meeting.

SPEAKER_03 51:55

Okay, something I'm really bad at, which you probably have picked up on if you've listened to this podcast, is um saying the correct phrases.

SPEAKER_00 52:03

Saying phrases correctly.

SPEAKER_03 52:05

See. See, saying phrases correctly. Um like just like idioms, like just like I I just never under like I always like understood the gist of phrases, and I think, but I never understood like the full phrase, and I think it's because my loving father and mother also did not understand phrases growing up, so we just kind of took after them. Um so we thought it would be funny if Joe quizzed the both of us on common phrases and see who got them right. You want to do that?

SPEAKER_02 52:40

I'm scared.

SPEAKER_03 52:41

I know it's scary. We're really put on the spot here.

SPEAKER_00 52:45

All right, so the first one, so uh the I'm gonna explain the idiom to you, and I'm just gonna you guys, I'm gonna try and you should be guessing what like the common idiom is. So the first one I'm gonna say uh is if we were talking about someone, like let's say we had been talking about, you know, me, Katie, dad, we're all three in a room, and we're talking about mom, and then all of a sudden mom walks in, somebody can say, Oh, you know, this is something you say when you when somebody walks in that you've been talking about.

SPEAKER_03 53:23

The should I go first? I was gonna say the elephant in the room.

SPEAKER_02 53:31

Oh, I'm gonna say my nose is burning.

SPEAKER_00 53:34

Okay, okay, dad. That's oh we'll we'll accept that one, dad. Uh except it's I think your ears, it's your ears, not your nose. First of all, Katie's saying elephant in the room is terrible. Uh I think it's your ears are burning, not your not your nose. Uh and the one that the one that I was trying to get was uh speak of the devil.

SPEAKER_03 53:59

Oh, I know that. But see that brain works. I would have been like, oh, the elephant in the room.

SPEAKER_00 54:08

Okay. So um now when something is very easy to complete, like it it's really not hard at all. It is what?

SPEAKER_03 54:18

You go first, Dad.

SPEAKER_00 54:19

That's a brain turner.

SPEAKER_03 54:21

Easy peasy, lemon squeezy.

SPEAKER_00 54:25

A brain a brain turner is easy. It turns your brain on.

SPEAKER_02 54:30

Or is it no brainer?

SPEAKER_00 54:35

Um okay, no brainer is good. Uh easy peasy, lemon squeezy is good. I was gonna we were looking for a piece of cake. Oh um let's see. Okay, I've got another one. Katie keeps all right, sorry, the mics may be a little tough this whole episode, but it's fine. Um okay, this is when you accomplish two goals at once, you do what? So, like if um while you're running errands, you were able to also, you know, um eat lunch or something. You were able to do two things at once.

SPEAKER_03 55:10

I know it. I know this one. We're not good at doing this, but two birds with one stone.

SPEAKER_00 55:15

I agree. Okay, we got that one. That one was good. Um let me see if I can do one one more. Um oh, okay. Uh this one I think is gonna be funny. So to do if you're describing exactly what is causing a situation or a problem. So like, oh, yep, that's it, right there. You what? You here I'll even I'll even give you a hint. You hit the blank on the blank.

SPEAKER_03 55:44

Hit the nail on the head? Do you agree?

SPEAKER_02 55:50

I was gonna say hit the nail on the coffin.

SPEAKER_00 55:54

Those are both right. We'll take both of those. The nail on the coffin. We'll take both of those. Okay, so that was better. That was better than I thought it was gonna go.

unknown 56:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 56:03

You want one more? Okay, hang on. Let me see if I can find one more. Stall for time, Katie.

SPEAKER_03 56:09

Doo doo.

SPEAKER_00 56:13

Okay, um, if you're wishing somebody good luck, um, oftentimes said like in reference for actors.

SPEAKER_02 56:22

Break a bone.

SPEAKER_03 56:25

Twist my arm.

SPEAKER_00 56:29

We're we're related. Did you do that one on purpose? Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 56:33

I don't actually break a leg.

SPEAKER_00 56:36

Break a leg. Break a bone. I mean, again, break a bone works for so for all our listeners out there, uh oftentimes I find myself sitting at the table with the chins and listening to the idioms go back and forth, and I'm just laughing the whole time.

SPEAKER_03 56:52

We're only like halfway right.

SPEAKER_00 56:53

Oh, Katie, I know.

SPEAKER_03 56:56

You know, thank you to my loving father.

SPEAKER_02 56:58

She is my son.

SPEAKER_03 57:00

Oh yeah. Well, if anyone wants to know, dad used to call me double growing up because that was the name I gave you. Why did you call me double?

SPEAKER_02 57:10

Because I wanted to call you double chin.

Closing Blessing And Sign Off

SPEAKER_03 57:12

Yep, there it is. Well, guys, thank you for listening. Thank you for dealing with our chaos. We just like to do everything together all the time here as a family. And it was fun, though. It was fun. This is a um realistic sneak peek into what hanging out with the chins are like. And um as always, Dad, we have to say it together. What do we say?

SPEAKER_00 57:34

No way he knows what it is.

SPEAKER_03 57:35

Hold on, let me whisper it to him.

unknown 57:37

Let's keep growing together.

SPEAKER_00 57:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 57:39

Okay, one, two, three. Let's keep growing together.

SPEAKER_00 57:44

I think that whisper was in there, so it's perfect.

SPEAKER_03 57:47

Bye, guys.