The Vine with Joe & Katie Devine
Welcome to "The Vine" with Joe and Katie Devine, where we embark on a journey through the twists and turns of life, love, and faith in our formative twenties. Join us as we candidly share our triumphs, trials, and everything in between, inviting you into our world of learning and growing together. Through heartfelt conversations, we navigate the complexities of marriage, relationships, and spirituality, reflecting on our missteps and milestones with humility and grace.
As branches of the same divine Vine, we embrace the power of community and the guidance of faith, aiming to inspire and uplift our listeners as we collectively journey toward greater understanding and connection. Welcome to a space where vulnerability meets wisdom and where, together, we discover the beauty of being intertwined in the vine of life.
The Vine with Joe & Katie Devine
Leaving Our Dream Home For Our Dream Home
Joe and Katie discuss their recent move to a new home while preparing for their first child, exploring how dreams evolve and when it's time to leave comfort for growth.
• Moving with the help of 12-14 friends who emptied their old house in just 2.5 hours
• The mental and emotional challenges of moving versus the physical labor
• Discerning when to make major life changes simultaneously (pregnancy and moving)
• How spiritual desires should shape material decisions
• Finding peace by aligning worldly situations with spiritual longings
• Reflections on their Seattle trip that helped them find contentment before their pregnancy
• The importance of consulting trusted people when making significant life changes
• Marriage statistics showing the average age of first-time homebuyers has increased from 28 to 38 since 1991
• Second-time homebuyers now average 61 years old, highlighting housing accessibility issues
Let's keep growing together!!
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Hello.
Speaker 2:Hello.
Speaker 1:What is up?
Speaker 2:Katie, what's new right now?
Speaker 1:Rad Nothing.
Speaker 2:Nothing is new.
Speaker 1:I just wanted to keep going down the train of saying, like cool things.
Speaker 2:Rad Rad Totally tubular.
Speaker 1:What is new? We are flip-flopped in a new space.
Speaker 2:We are in a new space, Katie. Where are we? We?
Speaker 1:are in our new house.
Speaker 2:We are in our new house, everything feels so flip-flopped In our new office even though we're recording on the same desk.
Speaker 1:Same devices. I feel turned around. I feel like you switched your desk up.
Speaker 2:It is on the other side of the room.
Speaker 1:But we were still facing the window.
Speaker 2:We're still facing the window. You were still facing like when you would talk. You were looking at the bookshelf.
Speaker 1:And now I'm on your left side. I'm normally on your right side. That is true so I'm just confused. But we're in a totally new space so we're all sorts of out of whack, right?
Speaker 2:now, I thought you were going to go with discombobulated is that not the same thing? I feel like I just described it is, it is, but I just figured definition of discombobulated out of whack, all All sorts of out of whack. Yeah, there you go, perfect. Well, welcome back. I'm Katie.
Speaker 1:And I'm Joe, and this is the Vine, the Vine. We should have done that earlier.
Speaker 2:We should have, but we're here now. We did it right now. Katie, what is your peek and pit?
Speaker 1:Obviously moving and obviously moving.
Speaker 2:Okay, love it how about you um, I was gonna, I was trying to think about the specifics of it. So I would say, honestly, the peak and you will know this because I told you I was getting emotional we had, I know, probably at one point, like close to 12 or 14 people helping us move yeah, it was awesome we moved.
Speaker 2:so we had moved a small amount of stuff out of our house on a thursday and friday, like we moved out our master bedroom and uh, that was pretty much it in like a couple boxes, and then we had a bunch of people help us move all the big stuff and the boxes and we moved out of our house in like two hours.
Speaker 1:Oh, it was two and a half.
Speaker 2:Two and a half.
Speaker 1:Started at 10. We were eating pizza by 1230.
Speaker 2:It was awesome. It was super awesome and I was just very moved because it was just cool to see people kind of show up and like show up to help us out, and moving is like the worst thing you can ask somebody to do. I was talking with connor, actually, and he was telling me that right before. So he helped me and one of our other friends, zach, move in like a what, like three weeks or whatever, and he was saying that right before both of us asked him to help him move. He was talking with his brother-in-, asked him to help him move. He was talking with his brother-in-law and his brother-in-law said like yeah, you know, you're at that age, connor, where you're like, you know, in your late 20s, early 30s, we're like nobody ever asked you to help them move again. You know, everybody just pays somebody to move.
Speaker 1:And then literally he said the next week.
Speaker 2:Both of you guys asked me to help you. We're not quite at that age yeah, we're not quite there yet.
Speaker 1:Next time for sure, we're not at that tax bracket yet.
Speaker 2:I'd say that's the bigger issue, um, but no, I was just. I was really moved by how much people helped us. And then it reminded me. I read this article. This is a very long-winded peak, um, it reminded me of this article I read many years ago. There was this guy who was a basketball writer, um, his name was jonathan charks, I think, and he wrote this, um, this letter basically, um, he had cancer and he had a two-year-old son and his father, this guy who's dying. His father also died young and he wrote about how he wants to his son to know him better than he knew his own father, because he just didn't know a whole lot about his father and he kind of put the onus on his friends to tell his son who he was right, because his friends knew him really well and he knew his friends were going to be involved in his kid's life and so he was like you guys have the duty to show my son who I was, and that just really touched me.
Speaker 1:I'm surprised you're not getting emotional talking about it. I know, I know. Every time he talks about it he starts tearing up.
Speaker 2:I tear up. I'm doing okay now. But, just the idea of knowing that, if something were to happen to either of us, our children will know who we are because we have been lucky enough to be surrounded by people who represent all different sides of us, and I just think that's cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was really special.
Speaker 2:So that was my peak my pit was moving. Is you know what? It's actually? Not even just moving. I think it's the mental part of moving, not the physical part. Like the physical part stinks. Yeah, you get really tired and we moved. It was like 100 degrees outside. The mental part of just knowing, like I'm looking in my office and there's a million boxes and they just have random stuff, even though we tried really hard to organize like and just knowing like okay, I, I got to get this set up. And then, like by the time you like try to set something up, there's like oh wait, but this also needs to be done. It's just like it's just a cascading list. Our neighbor said he's like be ready to be 80% moved in for the next like nine months.
Speaker 1:That's another thing. Our neighbors have been awesome, super nice. We've talked to them more than we have, like our old neighbors, in the four years we lived there, and we've only been here for two weeks and there's a beaver in our new neighborhood. His name is Martin.
Speaker 2:Martin the beaver and I guess we have in our new neighborhood. There's like a fishing pond and they say like every night at like 8 to 8.30 30.
Speaker 1:He'll just come on down and just say what's up making a dam yeah, he's like building a dam in our pond.
Speaker 2:It's kind of cool it is really cool.
Speaker 1:We've just felt so welcomed and it just feels like home, like from the get-go and like yeah not only did we have a bunch of people help get all the stuff here, we, like my family, stayed over and most people are like, I just want to have like some peace and quiet to myself. But ultimately this was like to our advantage and we felt really loved too because them staying over, they kind of did a lot of like, the like, the mental workload that we like did not have the capacity to do on our own, like they would just start shifting boxes and even just like putting boxes in the appropriate rooms what was the first night?
Speaker 2:I think it was like the fifth or sixth night we stayed in our house. That was the first day.
Speaker 1:Nobody came over uh, that, was that not like this past weekend, or I guess?
Speaker 2:yeah, I'm talking before that. So like we moved and then it was like five or six days straight of somebody coming over, right, oh yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1:I mean we had a lot of help, it was.
Speaker 2:Which was a good thing. It was a good thing.
Speaker 1:It was a great thing. So honestly we were like fully and we're so not fully settled, but like it just feels like home already.
Speaker 2:It does feel like the first night.
Speaker 1:that was rough First night well, no fan. No, fan the AC, we could not figure out. We only had our bed.
Speaker 2:I was not feeling good, no it was a tough pregnant night for you.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I guess another thing to mention too is I felt like so, so helpful to like get everything organized for the move until literally the day before. I was like you know what? Actually I'm almost 30 weeks pregnant, so I don't want to be helpful anymore. So it was just that, just saying that, because it was so helpful to have people and literally all I did was move couch cushions and that was the hardest thing I might have done that day.
Speaker 2:You were, you were helpful. I will say you were helpful.
Speaker 1:Lots of emotions, lots of physical stress, but we're here now.
Speaker 2:We made it.
Speaker 1:And we can't stop talking about it clearly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, we're going to talk about it a little bit more.
Speaker 1:Well, we are. Honestly, I was going to say it doesn't even really matter our peak and bit, because I feel like this episode is just a big like life dump, like what. Obviously you know what we've been up to um but kind of just like how we've been handling it, why we decided to move um where our heads were at, how we discerned this process, how we've grown through the process, because I have a lot to say on that too, I'm sure you do yeah what it's like doing this while you're also preparing for another very big, my like life change.
Speaker 1:Why? Why do both at the same time? Yeah, is that a good idea? Is that a bad idea? Would we recommend, etc. And ultimately like what it looks like chasing your dreams, but also um being at peace with the dream that you're leaving behind.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, I think what's the title of this episode that you wanted to call it.
Speaker 1:I know you have it Well it's still in the works per usual, but I'm thinking like leaving our dream home for our dream home, okay, yeah, and I think framing everything we talk about in that context is kind of the point of this episode.
Speaker 2:So, like the, the idea of it is. You know, um, I think we've talked about it on the podcast, but, like you know, my, my dream for us when we were 19 was our life, that we were living for the past four years for the past four years and so how do we move on to our next dream, leaving behind a completed dream, and what does that look like? And I think it actually ties into and like well, I'll talk about that later, but yes, I like the podcast or I like, excuse me, I like that idea well, and I think we've just been.
Speaker 1:It's been on the forefront of our minds because obviously number one dream was grow your family yeah that was like that's been on, like the um, that's been heavy on our hearts for a couple years now and, in and in that being our dream and doing everything we can, everything else in our life was just kind of in limbo, not in like a oh my gosh, like I hate my life, but it was like what's the point in changing what we're doing when we're not there yet? And so I think what we've been thinking about lately, or what I've been thinking about lately, is like how do I say like oh my gosh, look how great my life is. I've moved, we're starting a family, everything's working out without diminishing the value of the past four years that we've done together already. Like how do I uplift that and also speak on that with just as much positivity and love and recognizing that that was the dream for honestly longer? That was the dream for honestly longer?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was the dream from like 16 year old us, like we just wanted to get married, we wanted to live in Greenville, we wanted to get whatever house we could get and plant our roots, and we did that.
Speaker 2:We have planted our roots, we're taking root.
Speaker 1:Right now, I know which, if you've been listening, is our phrase for the year Take root.
Speaker 2:Well, and I know I completely agree with with what you're saying and I think that it's it's really challenging to uh not not look back and say like, oh, I can't believe we we lived like not lived like that because, like we, our house was very nice and we were in a great spot, but it's like I'm sure in a year we'll be like oh man, I I'm so glad we're out of that house or I'm so glad whatever. But you never know what circumstances have like we. Actually, my mom sent a picture of my dad last night to all my family and he's he's sitting on the back porch in the rain looking at the lake.
Speaker 2:He's got an umbrella over his head, he's just sitting in like a folding chair looking at the lake and my mom was like teasing, making fun of him. But then he sent a picture of his view from the backyard right now. And then he sent a picture and he does this every now and then, but of the view from the quote unquote backyard of my mom and dad's first house, and that picture maybe we'll post it on social media or something, but their first house was a row house in Baltimore. The backyard is literally just other houses and fences.
Speaker 1:We're watching the Wire right now too, so it feels very fitting. It does does and it literally was in downtown baltimore.
Speaker 2:I like how you say that we are watching the wire.
Speaker 1:Right now I'm watching it literally by association. You have it on at all times. Yeah, it's a great.
Speaker 2:It's a really it's a great show um, and I've already seen it before, so like it's just good to you know refresh it um. But anyway, like I like in the context of like I know that you know, my dad's dream when they lived in that house probably was not necessarily to move to chape in south carolina I don't think that was the dream and I I remember hearing them talk about like they. They were so happy that they lived in that row house, you know.
Speaker 1:Like what an accomplishment to buy a home.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, and I think that that's the I don't know what's the line on making sure that you're happy with the past and you respect where you have come from, but also like wanting to move forward but also not letting that be the only thing that's driving you, because the other thing that, like, this topic, made me think of, and which was why I was excited to kind of touch on it, is and we're stepping on our gospel in review episode.
Speaker 1:Do you even know what the series is called?
Speaker 2:Count the Fruits. I think Am I right.
Speaker 1:Just be a little bit more confident.
Speaker 2:It's count the fruits, it is count the fruit. See, I knew it.
Speaker 1:But you needed some more confidence for me.
Speaker 2:I did, but I actually want to talk about the first reading.
Speaker 1:This is for August. Yeah, you're talking about Sunday.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but the first reading. So the gospel is also about this.
Speaker 1:Excuse me, still gassy um you need to not tell them how gassy you are. Well, it's okay um.
Speaker 2:So this is the first reading from august um it's ecclesiastes. One um two. Two through 21 through 23 are there wait?
Speaker 1:Wait 1, 2, 3, start over. Is there two books of it?
Speaker 2:No, there's not two books of Ecclesiastes, I don't know. It says Ecclesiastes 1, 2. Oh, okay, ecclesiastes, chapter 1, verse 2. And then chapter 2, verse 21 through 23.
Speaker 1:But excuse me he reads the Bible. We promise I do.
Speaker 2:Vanity of vanities, says Quoleth. Vanity of vanities, All things are vanity. Here is one who has labored with wisdom and knowledge and skill, and yet to another who has not labored over it, he must leave property. This also is vanity and a great misfortune. For what profit comes to a man from all the toil and anxiety of heart which with he has labored under the sun All his days? Sorrow. What are your thoughts on that verse in the context of our, you know, dream to dream the all-consuming power of vanity is what got to me.
Speaker 1:Wow, I like that all-consuming power of vanity is what got to me like the way. Wow, I like that. You know me. Um, because I struggle with this. I really don't. I don't want to be a vain person. I think that we all have tendencies to be vain you know, it's easy when you're caught up in the life that we live, but I have a hard time being proud of the good things that we have without feeling shamed about being too vain about it.
Speaker 1:And so I'm like I never know the balance of you know, am I bragging too much? Am I being too extra? Like, do I really need this? Like how do I know that my heart is in the right disposition with what we have? Like when do I know what the boundary is? And I I like how that verse kind of emphasizes that like what does it say? Like when you're not at rest, like something about not being at rest um all consuming. It says something um.
Speaker 2:For what profit comes to a man from all the toil and anxiety of heart with which he has labored under the sun all his days? Sorrow and grief are his occupation.
Speaker 1:Even at night his mind is not at rest and that's what stood out to me, because there have been times where I've set up at night and I'm just thinking about the things, the material things, like gosh, I wish I had so-and-so's house or this or that, or I wish I had that mom car that I'm dreaming about.
Speaker 2:She is dreaming about the Toyota. Sequoia people.
Speaker 1:Don't out me like that, and there are times where those thoughts and those desires consume me to the point that I feel like my life is no longer good because I don't have it, and I think that is what stood out to me as far as how do you know when vanity is taking over? That's how you know when it's literally stealing the joy from the life that you're living.
Speaker 2:That's when your dream becomes a nightmare.
Speaker 1:That's when you're yeah, that's when it's no longer a dream.
Speaker 2:That's when the dream life becomes the nightmare, when it's never enough right.
Speaker 1:And that's ultimately the truth of the world. It's never enough, and I think that we try really, really hard to be content with what we have, but it is one of those conversations and one of those things that you have to call each other out on constantly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I told you I can't remember. Remember this was probably a couple months back, it was right when we first started buying the house, um, but like I would find myself in mass constantly thinking about our finances, yeah, and that's not a good thing, and I would try and reposition myself, but I feel like it's one of those things, where it was, it was taking up such a large portion of my my mental uh, I don't know my memory bank. It was taking up so much storage space in my mind that, like I everything kind of kept coming back to it. And I think that that's where I realized like, okay, I have to do a reset for myself mentally, because I shouldn't always be coming back to like, when there's dead time, where does my mind wander? It shouldn't wander back to our finances, it should wander back to God, you know.
Speaker 2:And I just felt like I wasn't centering that search around God, that search around God. And then I felt like the more that I tried to kind of just think about okay, what's the best thing I can do here? What's the right decision? What's the godly decision for these outcomes? How can I handle these issues in a godly way? I felt like it tended to whether the outcome was actually good or bad. I was more at rest, and I think that's the point of that verse too is that if you're only stressed about the things of the world and your material possessions, you'll never truly get to be at rest.
Speaker 1:And I think that where it's different than something like I'm, you know the, the prosperity gospel right.
Speaker 2:You know what that is like. Basically, being good to god will. He'll bless you with an abundance of things and specifically usually it's used in like the you will financially be rewarded for if you and I I don't think of that's true.
Speaker 2:I think that's very wrong, because I think if you read the gospel reading and I'm sure we'll touch on this when we actually cover it, but the gospel reading there you would view the man who has you know, it's a scripture of the man who has so much stuff. He builds other barns and then, you know, turns out, he's going to die that night. So why build all these barns? And you know, turns out, he's going to die that night. So why build all these barns? And you know why hoard all this stuff? You would view him as blessed.
Speaker 2:But christ in that parable does not say that the man who has all this stuff is blessed. And I think that we uh, I was not blessed, you know, we weren't blessed to be able to do this. You know, get this house because there were lots of issues and problems along the way too. But when we're not focused on the material possessions and we're focused on God, you have the better perspective to handle those issues better. Right, and so that you're able to go into the world with a better perspective. And that is the blessing, not the actual material thing, because it could have been a blessing, you know, maybe something could have fallen through with this house and we wouldn't have gotten it Right.
Speaker 1:That could have been a blessing.
Speaker 2:And that could have been the blessing, but it would have felt not like a blessing perspective and are including God in it. It gives us the ability to handle those things better and get rest right and get fulfillment and get I don't know joy. I don't know if that made sense or if I was kind of rambling on that.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, it made perfect sense. I think it was really fitting Like we both went to Mass on Sunday and we were like, wow, like we needed to, we needed to hear this.
Speaker 2:No, because I mean, I think it different. I forget what priest told me this one time, but, like at different points in your lives, you're predisposed to, you're not predisposed.
Speaker 2:You're more vulnerable to certain sins at different times in your life, yeah, and I think that, like, at least I've found this as we've gotten older, like that's the sin that I feel, like I'm maybe more predisposed to. And the other thing that the priest said sorry, I'm just, I feel like I'm talking a lot, but I really this topic I was excited to talk about. It is like the priest that we the homily about this, you know from the readings this week. He was touching on the idea of lusting after monetary goods and that was something that I found very interesting because you know, we consider that greed right, wanting more, but the the lustfulness aspect of it I thought was very interesting. And again, I think in the context of, you know, living your dreams and then wanting more, I think that that's another thing that can. How do you know that's what you're falling into?
Speaker 1:Is when you achieve that thing or get that thing, you immediately feel dissatisfied.
Speaker 2:Immediately.
Speaker 1:It's like that emotional high just drops, and I think that that is what lust is. You get there and you're like this isn't as great as I thought it was.
Speaker 2:That's a phenomenal point. That is exactly what lust is. It's never good enough.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think I have felt good and I think the reason we feel so at peace here so quickly is because we got here and it was like wow, like we're here and like we're still riding that high, like we're still like so excited to decorate the home and make the house a home and bring our daughter into this home and grow our family here.
Speaker 1:Like I can still envision the life that will soon be brimming, you know, in this home yeah and like that is what gives me a lot of peace, knowing like you did make the right decision and this was right, which is a good point, because I do. I feel like people. If I, if I were listening to this, I would be like, okay, what made you, like, make such big life decisions all at once at the same time, like, I guess, how do you discern that? And like, how did we come to this conclusion? Because I do feel like what we did was a lot rash, as some would say it was rash.
Speaker 1:And again, like people, if you're listening to this and you're like, yeah, that sounds pretty rash, you're probably right, but how did we know? It was time? And I just feel like it'd be interesting for us to kind of dissect that, because I'm sure that there are people on the opposite side of this where they're like, oh, I'm pregnant, I need to like settle down and hunker down and not do anything. Or there's people like us where it's like oh, like time to nest for nine months and absolutely add more chaos into our lives it's a.
Speaker 2:It's a great point. I think, uh, I think there's two pieces to it. I think there's it's. The overarching idea is I think that's how you and I handle large-scale life events, is we would prefer to do all of them at once? Yeah, and I think that's just how you and I handle things. To give you perspective.
Speaker 1:We got married. Joe asked um, while we were engaged, planning a wedding. Joe was like what can I do? Because you know, if you've planned a wedding, typically the bride does most of the decision making, which was really hard for Joe because he loves to make decisions.
Speaker 2:I do.
Speaker 1:I do. So he's like what do I do? How can I help? And honestly, as a joke, I was like you can find us a house, truly thinking that this was not going to happen, and, in typical Joe fashion, within two weeks.
Speaker 2:We had a house. We had a house and he was like, all right, what else? Or we had put an offer in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so that is kind of how we started this life together, and here we are kind of doing a very similar thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that that's again. That's just how you and I operate. I always joke with Katie and say that I'm like the perfect example of an object in motion stays in motion, but I'm very hard to get into motion. So, like every time we go to record a podcast, I always like huff and puff, but then you know I'm here and I'm always enjoying it.
Speaker 1:We're ready to go, can I like? How many times has joe, during this conversation, been like I've just been so excited to talk about this topic? I told him about this topic 30 minutes ago no, no, no, that's not true.
Speaker 2:We, you told me like yeah, but I reiterated it.
Speaker 1:You were like what are we talking about again?
Speaker 2:yeah, that's true, um, but anyway, I so I think that's there's that piece of it. I think there's also the reality of our situation and I think this goes back to living your dream, but also how that morphs into kind of your future dream. We knew we, we are going to want to have more kids, and I think that the other thing I don't we haven't actually talked about this and confirmed, I would imagine even if we can't have kids, you know, even if we struggle to get pregnant again, I don't think our family will stop growing it at one child yes and we knew that.
Speaker 2:And so for our specific situation, where the finances lined up, where, like, it all kind of made sense, where it was like, okay, let's, let's make the jump now, versus four or five years down the road where it might be a lot harder to to make the move, yeah, and I think that was. That was the specific circumstances for why we decided to do that, and I think that our, our dream was not uh.
Speaker 1:I want a big house.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it's more so than that. What I'm trying to think about is, like the dream that we have for ourself is not shaped by our material desires. It's shaped by our spiritual desires, and the dream that we had for ourself was to grow our family and to provide I think both of us a space for our friends and family to gather. That was the spiritual desire we had. It was not a monetary desire, I mean, I'm sure it crept in. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that the very pious and holy decision we made was to buy a bigger house, but our vision has always been the same.
Speaker 2:Yes, and I think we were motivated again by a spiritual desire, not a physical one, and I think that that again was another sign for us that, hey, this is.
Speaker 1:Well, and I think when your spiritual desires line up with your worldly situation, it's a good sign that God is pushing you towards this. If we couldn't afford this house, would we have taken out a bunch of loans to make it happen? Probably not.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean we did, we took out one loan. I mean we did.
Speaker 1:We did not.
Speaker 2:We took out one big loan, one really big loan.
Speaker 1:But we wouldn't kill, kill ourselves or break, like we wouldn't be unreasonable about it, like we got to a place in life where we were like this is something we can reasonably do.
Speaker 2:And we qualified it with a lot of people too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, that's a really good point, like how do you make these big life decisions, like talk to your people.
Speaker 1:And I think that if people you trust are telling you no, you have to listen to them even though you want it really, really bad, and we were ready for people to be like this is ridiculous, like you've got enough space in your house as it is, which is true, and I think that's why it's a good thing to bring up, because could we have made this work in our old home? Absolutely, but like we just felt like such a push to make this happen now. Yeah, and I also think, um, because the past couple years we've been trying to start a family. Honestly, you've had like the itch to do this for a while, and I I was the one that's like no, absolutely yeah to be fair or to be, um, what's the obama quote?
Speaker 2:let me be clear um, I thank you for defending me on that, because we I've been teased a lot about from friends and family for, like, why you guys just decided to buy a house in two months. Katie told me a long time ago that when because I I have been looking and been looking for what I would feel like would be our house for a long time, you said when we have a kid- I'd be open to it. You'd be open to it.
Speaker 1:So I have been doing work in the background for a long time, for a long time, yes, which is why I wanted to mention it. It's not like something we just to a lot of people, yeah, and sometimes, thinking back on it, I'm like, wow, that was really rash and spontaneous. We did.
Speaker 2:I mean, we didn't really even look anywhere.
Speaker 1:But we knew what we wanted. But my point is, we had been festering. Is that the right word?
Speaker 2:Marinating on it for a while. Marinating is a much better word than festering Like a wound.
Speaker 1:Marinating on it for a while and Joe for a while had been sending me Zillow links and whatnot and I was like, truthfully, it's a beautiful home but I can't justify it if I don't know for sure what our family is going to look like you couldn't see your spiritual fulfillment, Like your spiritual desire wasn't there yet. Exactly Like I would just be buying the house to buy the house, like and that is a bad right decision absolutely, and so I think that those two things factored together like we were able to afford it.
Speaker 1:This was a very strong spiritual desire and we were clearly in a place where our family is growing. All the things just kind of added up and we're very much like together.
Speaker 1:We're very go getters, like, we're like yeah once we start thinking about something, we had to make it happen, what I recommended. I think the biggest thing that has gotten me through it is your support. Oh, you too Like well each other's support, and I've we've talked about about this, like with my sister and like friends of ours who've just gotten married, like you don't realize how much you have to operate as a team when you're married yeah like these big life decisions.
Speaker 1:There's literally no way that you, I, could have made this decision on my own, like I, probably. What does justin say? He says I'm the artist, you're the engineer, like I wait.
Speaker 2:Who says that? Justin Derry who said oh, he says that yeah, when we were talking, anyways, probably that makes sense that's a side story, but Justin, come on. The podcast figure out how to make your schedule work and stop texting me yes, it'll work, and then telling me an hour before blast. This is truly on blast. I want to see if I listen.
Speaker 1:But yeah, he says I'm the artist and you are the engineer, and so what that means to me is I have all these great ideas, all these desires and longings and dreams, but don't make any of it happen.
Speaker 1:And you are like you are the guy, like you're my partner, like you help make these, like you help me practically walk through how to make these things happen.
Speaker 1:And you are like you are the guy, like you're my partner, like you help make these, like you help me practically walk through how to make these things happen for us. And so I say that because if Joe was not in the picture and if it was just me or I was married to somebody who was the same as me, we would like we probably wouldn't be here. And so I think it is super, super important to like evaluate how you both operate as a team. You know, like Joe could have very easily gotten frustrated with me and like my inability to like really process things as quickly as he does, but in a way, it's taught him to slow down and we both have to sit down and really like process things together at my pace, because I needed to be on the same page. Yeah, which I don't know if we have time for this, but I feel like that would be fun to like dive into also. Like, how do you think we've grown?
Speaker 2:Well, do you mind if I maybe we save that for another episode? Because, because I actually want to talk about.
Speaker 1:I want to talk about something that's more important to me.
Speaker 2:Well, that's not no, go for it. It's, but it's in the same. It's in the same vein of, like the the dream thing, because I I wanted to bring it up earlier, but just I probably forgot. Um, but before we found out you were pregnant.
Speaker 1:We went on a trip to seattle oh yeah, this is a good thing, I will allow, you will allow this okay, and it was.
Speaker 2:We were literally on the trip we talked about, like maybe it's just time to stop trying for a while literally changing our dreams, like changing our totally, switching it up because we knew that, like wanting a family and stuff, that was our spiritual desire. But I think, even above that desire, the spiritual desire was for us to live a happy, happily married life centered around God. I would say that was our number one and on that trip we had an awesome time.
Speaker 1:It was like the first time that I had gone on a trip with you where I didn't feel like I was like running away from, like the sadness of being at home.
Speaker 2:Yes, I completely agree with that and I think that, like we had both, kind of separately, come to the conclusion that, okay, this is our life and we can be very happy and fulfilled with this life, can be very happy and fulfilled with this light, like we'll live in our, the same house, we would have lived in and we would have just, you know, lived our life and maybe traveled a little bit more, and, you know, we would have changed our um, our physical dreams I think, oh you're crying.
Speaker 2:Why are you crying? I don't know why, are you crying? Don't know. Is it because you're pregnant? Probably Not because she got pregnant.
Speaker 1:Someone put you on blast for saying that. No, I think I'm just crying, thinking.
Speaker 2:Oh so sweet.
Speaker 1:This is only you do this. I don't do this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you don't cry on the podcast, I do.
Speaker 1:I think it's just sentimental, because it was such a pivotal trip it was only four days.
Speaker 2:We didn't do anything crazy.
Speaker 1:It was very last minute, which is so on brand for us yeah, I think we planned it three weeks before we don't even know anything about port angeles, washington, and we were just like you know what, like let's just do something. We don't even know anything about Port Angeles, washington, and we were just like you know what, like let's just do something fun, like get out. Yeah, are you crying now too?
Speaker 2:I'm actually I'm good.
Speaker 1:Okay, and it just felt like so good to like just be happy with what we had. Yeah, and I just feel like so good to like just be happy with what we had.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I just feel like that you're really putting me on the spot here. You don't have to, I can cover.
Speaker 1:I feel like I need to explain myself. Yeah, um, I feel like that was what my heart needed to come to terms with, like yeah look at how great your marriage and your life is. Like you can still experience this desire for new life by you know, like seeing me in the world. And like seeing me and your husband and seeing me and your family and I don't know it was just really happy Like it was just a happy like it was so unplanned.
Speaker 1:We had no idea what we were doing and just had like a really good time. And it's just funny, because now I'm always gonna think about do we have to go back to Port Angeles?
Speaker 1:because it was just like Mount Storm King with Mary Jo's that might be tough um it'd be very hard but like it just was the first time that I was just like so content with where we were and like you're right, we both like came to terms with like we had just coming out of like a really, really hard time, like we just finished 2024, I'm thinking like katie, it was sorry to interrupt you, but I want to say I had come in December.
Speaker 2:I had a company-wide meeting, so I flew to Columbus and I was flying home.
Speaker 1:This is the end of 2024. This is the end of 2024.
Speaker 2:And my flight gets delayed. So I am sitting in the Reagan National Airport with a co-worker who was also flying back into Greenville, funny enough, and Katie calls me, and I mean you were. I mean like I would say it was probably one of your lowest points, Cause I wasn't home and you were really struggling and I remember you were, you were crying, just saying like you said fix this and I'm like you need to come home and fix this and I'm like I'm sitting in the reagan national airport.
Speaker 2:I like I'm sorry, like I just have nothing. I got nothing for you like so helpful, I know so helpful but that was like that image in my mind is so vivid.
Speaker 2:And then, coming to the trip we had where it was like okay, this is the life, and I think that's where again. I think on that trip was um, it kind of punched us in a fate the face again. That like, even though we very, both, very devoutly wanted to have kids, what we cared more about was our faith and each other yeah and that sounds crazy because we're gonna love mary jo to the ends of the earth.
Speaker 2:But I know that in order to love her the best way possible, I have to love god more and I have to love our marriage probably more probably yeah well, I'm just, I haven't really, I haven't really thought through but in my head I think like I just know that that will lead to a greater love, like she will then experience more love in her life, correct? But I also know that those two things have to be handled first, and I think that could have been our dream. We could.
Speaker 1:We could be recording this episode, you know, in a very different way well and, like this, podcast was created out of this desire again to create new life in different ways and um, we were very tempted to kind of stop it because life, like you're clearly aware now has been really crazy and like I was tempted to be like this is too much, I can't keep up with the like social media we only get like four views a day or four listens a day or whatever and but then there has been new life created in this.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But just the life like the, the life that we speak through the words with each other, whether or not people listen or not. We love that you're here, if you're listening. I do feel like these are conversations that are not like would not naturally be had if we were just like sitting on the couch watching the wire, because we would just be watching well, I would be really interested in the wire would be halfway interested and be like is that the girlfriend and I'd be like no, that's the other, that's his like side chick and I just feel like this it's.
Speaker 1:This is very much like every episode honestly is very much so like we pray before we start and then we just kind of see what happens not to say it's unplanned, but it is a little bit unplanned, but it provides, like us, us a space to like, really just like, reflect on what life is like and what is like on the forefront of our hearts I don't think you had reflect on that seattle trip.
Speaker 2:I don't think well you mentioned that before.
Speaker 1:But just like in the context of dreams, yeah I think I just got really emotional because you're so right, like that was oh, here comes the end. Sorry, it's a good thing we're almost done that, like I was. So like I think, before we even left Seattle, we booked our next trip to Colorado, yeah, and then we were planning to have in October, which is when she's due, which is funny. We were planning to go on a pilgrimage to Rome Yep, october, which is when she's due, which is funny. We were planning to go on a pilgrimage to Rome, yep, like and not to say like traveling was the dream, but just like. That was how we wanted to enjoy our time together and that was what we had the time and the energy like. It was worth pouring that time and energy and money into because of how much joy and how how much we like love doing it together and how much we felt like truly, every trip was like a pilgrimage and our we were at that time.
Speaker 2:We were um fitting our physical dreams into the reality of our world, or our um trying to think, like we were fitting the dreams of like, okay, like, what do you want out of your life? Not the in a non-spiritual sense, because ultimately, we all do live in the world, right? So, we were manifesting different dreams that fit the reality that we had my dream to. If I dreamed to be an NBA player, that wouldn't have been a very good dream, because that's just not Because he's a short king.
Speaker 2:I am a short king, that's just not sure king. I am a short king, that's that would. That's just not within the reality. And and I'm you know, I've never played competitive basketball in my life and I'm 28, so it seems like a tough time to start. Um, you have to put your dreams within the reality and then I think you'll, you'll find you're much, much more satisfied well, and I'm sorry I interrupted you.
Speaker 1:No, no, I think that was clearly a good change and to like are we sad that we're not fulfilling much more satisfied? So I'm sorry I interrupted you on the change of topic. No, no, I think that was clearly a good change. And are we sad that we're not fulfilling that dream anymore? No, no. That's the thing about dreams. They are treasures that God places on your heart, and I think we talked about this in the Count the Fruit for July. We want to store as much treasure as we can up in heaven.
Speaker 2:I agree.
Speaker 1:And how do you know like it's a dream, like this is like a worldly dream or like a treasure from God, like this is how you know it's that peace, it's that feeling, that like I'm okay, that my dreams are shifting, because it means that God is calling me closer to him and the dream that I had was not nearly as good as the dream he has for me.
Speaker 2:And that's a great point. And one last thing on that that's what the priest talked about when he was discussing those essentially, that you never get that peace If you're just chasing a financial dream, a monetary dream, a worldly dream. You will never be satisfied.
Speaker 1:Yeah. You know, because you'll always be searching for more.
Speaker 2:Yeah, good podcast, good podcast. All right, so this marriage meeting is kind of a Debbie Downer, but I think it's very interesting facts A.
Speaker 1:Debbie Downer.
Speaker 2:And I think it showcases that we need to. You know, we need to figure out some change in the world. So you ready?
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Okay, so in 1990, excuse me, let's see, I think this is 19. I want to make sure. Okay, in 1991, what was the median age of a first-time homebuyer? So these are homebuying stats.
Speaker 1:I have, like, no concept or grasp of 55.
Speaker 2:First-time homebuyer.
Speaker 1:Oh, first-time homebuyer 18.
Speaker 2:28. Okay 18 would be crazy coming out of high school.
Speaker 1:I don't know, it's only 30 years ago, or whatever. I'm trying to guess, like the two drastic things in my head okay, what do you think it is?
Speaker 2:uh well, what do you think it was in 2024? So it was 28, what do you think it was in 2024? First age or first time home buyers wait.
Speaker 1:so yes, okay, in 2024?.
Speaker 2:Yes 35. Close 38.
Speaker 1:So 10 years 10 years older.
Speaker 2:The average age for the first time home buyer is 38. Why Mortgage rates? Homes are more expensive. I feel like the decline of marriage. There's a lot of things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm sure there's a bunch of factors, but when I think of the 90s I think of really, really high interest rates. But I guess we're also there now too.
Speaker 2:I mean, the rates were I actually don't even know what they were, but homes were a lot less expensive, right, I mean this number is probably so wrong, but I'm thinking like 12% interest rate they probably weren't much like I don't know.
Speaker 1:I mean they were probably close to that or at least maybe they were like that in the 80s but I guess, like people joke now because they're like, oh, because we're one of the last people born in the 90s, and there's like this video that's circulating the internet, that's like like me as a newborn, like what was I doing as a newborn?
Speaker 2:not investing in land that's so true, so true.
Speaker 1:We could have invested in early bitcoin while we were in the womb in the womb.
Speaker 2:All right now. This is. This is the one that I think's crazy. Okay. Second time home buyers. Okay, so we are now a part of this club. Second time home buyers what do you think the average age was in? 91?
Speaker 1:I'm guessing a lot oh.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let's just do now. Let's just do now. What do you think the average age of a second time homebuyer?
Speaker 1:is now so 38 is the first time homebuyer age. Hmm, I feel like when you buy a home, typically people stay there for a long time nowadays.
Speaker 2:That would be correct.
Speaker 1:So I'm thinking like 20 years later, so 38, 48, 58.
Speaker 2:You're very close. It's 61.
Speaker 1:61?.
Speaker 2:Isn't that crazy.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:So I think it shows that we need to make purchasing a home easier for everybody. Ooh, joking Go support some legislation, for it Shout out the Abundance Agenda. It's a great agenda.
Speaker 1:I mean I'm sure they got some stuff wrong.
Speaker 2:I should probably. I mean, I know like quasi about it. There's lots of ways to go about it.
Speaker 1:Or just rent. You know that's not the end of the world either.
Speaker 2:No, there's no problem with renting. You know, that's not the end of the world either no, there's no problem with renting.
Speaker 1:If Allie were here she'd be like yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just rent.
Speaker 1:Rent your life away. It's so much easier having someone else in charge.
Speaker 2:Well, Katie, great podcast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this was actually really good. Thank you for listening and sticking around and, as always, as always, let's keep growing together.
Speaker 2:Bye y'all.
Speaker 1:Bye, thank you.