The Vine with Joe & Katie Devine
Welcome to "The Vine" with Joe and Katie Devine, where we embark on a journey through the twists and turns of life, love, and faith in our formative twenties. Join us as we candidly share our triumphs, trials, and everything in between, inviting you into our world of learning and growing together. Through heartfelt conversations, we navigate the complexities of marriage, relationships, and spirituality, reflecting on our missteps and milestones with humility and grace.
As branches of the same divine Vine, we embrace the power of community and the guidance of faith, aiming to inspire and uplift our listeners as we collectively journey toward greater understanding and connection. Welcome to a space where vulnerability meets wisdom and where, together, we discover the beauty of being intertwined in the vine of life.
The Vine with Joe & Katie Devine
Hoping vs. Waiting: Part 2 — When Hope Wins
What happens when you've spent years praying for something that seems impossible? After nearly three years of struggling with infertility, we're finally ready to share our miracle—we're expecting our first child!
This journey has been filled with doctor appointments, medications, surgeries, tears, doubts, and ultimately, a deepening understanding of what hope truly means. As we celebrate our four-year wedding anniversary, we reflect on how we've grown individually and as a couple. We've learned that while time changes circumstances, those core qualities that drew us together at 16 still remain at the heart of our relationship.
The path to pregnancy wasn't simple. After endometriosis surgery and working with multiple doctors, we found ourselves at a crossroads—feeling defeated and ready to move on. Then came an appointment I almost canceled, with a doctor who offered a completely different approach. Instead of more tracking and supplements, she simply said, "Let me do it for you." That permission to release control became the unexpected gift we needed.
This episode explores more than just our pregnancy announcement. We dive into what it means to maintain hope when disappointment feels inevitable. By incredible coincidence, Katie was asked to lead a workshop on hope for our church before knowing she was pregnant. The framework she developed—recognizing what hope is, embarking on the journey of hope, looking for signs, and anchoring yourself in hope—became the compass that guided us through our darkest moments.
For anyone walking through infertility or any season of painful waiting, this one's for you. We've been where you are, and while everyone's story unfolds differently, we want you to know that hope truly does not disappoint—even when it takes forms we never expected.
Reflection:
Read the Pope Francis’ Bull of Indiction (Letter addressing the Jubilee Year of Hope) HERE:
Have you experienced a season of waiting?
How did you maintain hope?
Where do you “hide” your hope behind?
How can you cling to God in the Hopelessness?
We'd love to hear your stories and continue growing together through this new chapter.
An exclusive from Dery Media Podcasts. Explore diverse perspectives and enrich your knowledge at derymedia.com. Telling stories that matter, sparking meaningful discussions.
Hello, hello.
Speaker 2:Hello everybody and welcome back.
Speaker 1:Welcome back. I'm Katie.
Speaker 2:And I'm Joe, and this is.
Speaker 1:The Vine.
Speaker 2:The Vine. We are here. You're very quiet, Katie.
Speaker 1:Oh, I know, oh, so sorry.
Speaker 2:Can you hear me now? Yeah, that's so much better.
Speaker 1:I was scared of the mic. Usually I am.
Speaker 2:Yeah, terrified of it. It's very easy, Katie. What's going on?
Speaker 1:What's going on? A lot has been going on.
Speaker 2:There is a lot going on. What is? I guess we're just getting into it. Normally there's so much banter we have back and forth.
Speaker 1:Because we're usually struggling to start this. But okay, yeah, Peek and Pit, Let getting into it. Normally there's so much banter we have back and forth Because we're usually struggling to start this. But okay, yeah, Peak and Pit, let's do it.
Speaker 2:Okay, do you want me to start or do you want to go?
Speaker 1:You start, I always go first.
Speaker 2:Okay, I don't think that's true.
Speaker 1:Well, it's true today.
Speaker 2:Okay, fair, I would say my Peak and Pit are related to the same thing. So peak and pit are both that we accepted a contract on our house big excitement, explosions all around um but we sold our house and it's super exciting. So that's like the peak part of it is. We got a really good offer. We were super excited about um. You know everything about the offer and everything we're like. This is great. My pit, however, though, is like I forgot that just because, like, an offer is accepted, that doesn't mean there's not lots of other moving pieces.
Speaker 1:So many moving pieces?
Speaker 2:Yes, and like I just am nervous Like any single, like we just had our inspection today and like everything was great, you know just small stuff. But like I'm like oh my gosh, what about this, what about this?
Speaker 1:Like what are they going to find?
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, I'm just afraid, like you know, that a meteor is going to hit the house or something Like I don't know. It's just very nerve wracking, this like weird in between limbo. I agree. So that would be my peak and pit, but I would definitely say it is super exciting to like get a contract offer and I one of the things that I would say I don't like about real estate versus like regular sales, and so this is. It was really hard for me because, because I'm in sales like I am used to like handling the deal and the way I sell. Like I'm not a big negotiator when it comes to like, well, I want to offer you know a hundred dollars for that and somebody is like, well, no, I need 200. And then we like meet in the middle at 150. I'd rather talk with them for long enough and then get to the price. So I'm not a nego like a hardcore negotiator like back forth.
Speaker 1:Back forth, I'm more of like you're not really cutthroat and I think you have to be cutthroat, yeah, in the real estate business.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, I think I'm cutthroat in a different way, like when it comes to sales, because I try and like lower people's defenses and like build connection. Yeah, you build the connection before they. I'm cutthroat in the sense that, like I'm gonna be your friend and then you're gonna want to make it work for both of us in real estate.
Speaker 1:You can't do that, you're just sending yeah, you don't have time to develop a relationship like we don't, we, we can't get to know the buyers. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Whereas, like, if we get to know them, then, like you know, we get to help you know, but that's you know, that's all against real estate law, I guess, or whatever yeah.
Speaker 1:It's tricky. We're learning a lot. I have a lot of respect for my mom and my sister and my dad Like kudos. My mom just started her own business. It's Trinity Real Estate her own business trinity real estate wait.
Speaker 2:Trinity reality group trg reality group.
Speaker 1:She just got her broker's license like she's killing it out there and is now expanding to greenville and um, we're super happy to be a part of that well, free advertising. I mean, why not?
Speaker 2:that you're true, true but um, it's.
Speaker 1:it is a lot of work behind the scenes. And like no days off, right, like if you get an offer on Sunday, like sorry, I know it's the Sabbath, but Not, no more, it is you got to do your thing.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, a lot of respect for especially my mom and my sister, but all the real estate agents out there, but yeah, I would say my peak is the same in the sense I'm really, really relieved that we finally got an offer, but it feels like we're still holding, like we're still tense, like we're not quite I love counting my chickens before they hatch, and katie hates it I? I really don't, because I'm an expectations gal like. I don't want to get my expectations set on anything until I know for sure what's realistic katie's mind.
Speaker 2:We have not sold the house yeah, I, I just I'm.
Speaker 1:I'm glad that like someone's like we've signed things, but like I don't know watch they're gonna ask for like 20 000.
Speaker 2:Speaking of that, let's air out the uh laundry on the podcast. Did you sign that sheet that I told you to?
Speaker 1:oh no, okay, all right, I need to do that today.
Speaker 2:I will do it so the entire listener base knows Katie's supposed to sign this one sheet today.
Speaker 1:I will do what I promise.
Speaker 2:I only told her like three hours ago.
Speaker 1:Only once I needed a reminder, but I will do it. Yeah, lots of things that I feel like we're signing our lives away. I don't even have time to like read through what we're signing anymore no, but you're, you know, you're there I'm there. I'm learning one step at a time, but yes, so that was the peak. Um, my own personal peak is I've been loving just going to my friday daily mess in the morning, like I have been loving oh no oh, listen to him, he's already grumbling I love grumbling he does lately, today especially oh my gosh um, I've been loving it though, like I, it's like 7 am mass at St Mary's downtown.
Speaker 1:I used to go more often. I've mentioned it before, but I just want to reiterate that it is like my favorite time, like the quiet before the chaos, like I get get my coffee afterwards, sometimes I get a little bit of breakfast. It's just like some alone time, and then every now and then, First of all, you're not alone, Well that's what I say Every now, and then you will join me, and it is even better.
Speaker 2:How many times have I been with you? Twice, since you've restarted going Twice, which is every time.
Speaker 1:No, I've gone like four times.
Speaker 2:This is suspect. This is very suspect.
Speaker 1:I've gone like four times the past four weeks and the other week you and my mom came and that was really fun.
Speaker 2:That was fun.
Speaker 1:So that was definitely a peak I almost fell asleep.
Speaker 2:I'm just kidding, that's not true, oh my gosh, you liked it too, it was nice.
Speaker 1:And then the uphit well, today I mean just back to what you said we had the inspection and then like didn't realize the buyers and their agents were going to be there, and like we were just kind of kicked out of our house luckily.
Speaker 2:No, they didn't kick us.
Speaker 1:I want to be very clear I left we, they didn't kick us out well, we were not expecting to have company. We thought that just the inspectors we did clean the house, so I know, but had I known I would have done a better job, like we would have, I think all you're thinking about is the fact that the air fryer was left on the counter. I'm just I, I don't do that you couldn't mow the lawn.
Speaker 2:It's been raining for like eight days, that's true, that's true but uh, god is flooding the world again.
Speaker 1:I would have done better is what I'm saying, but it's okay, they were very nice. You actually got to meet them, right.
Speaker 2:Yes, I don't know how much we should talk about this.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'm stopping now.
Speaker 2:Yes, they were very nice.
Speaker 1:Anyways, that's all, that's my peek and pet. That's all, that's my peek and pet.
Speaker 2:Cool Katie, this topic was all you, so let her rip tater chip.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, this podcast is being released on a Monday, which will be the Monday after our anniversary.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes.
Speaker 1:And our anniversary is May 14th.
Speaker 2:What day of the week is that? Do you know?
Speaker 1:It's this Wednesday, correct.
Speaker 2:Correct.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it's in a couple of days and we are going to be going to Colorado. We're recording this before, obviously, but it's just a special time.
Speaker 2:What if we did like an on-site recording?
Speaker 1:In Colorado.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:We would have to carry all this stuff with us. That would be a lot.
Speaker 2:And we're already going to be tight on luggage space.
Speaker 1:We definitely will.
Speaker 2:It's going to be cold. I'm not ready for it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we were not prepared. I was expecting, like nice, spring hikes, but we didn't do our research.
Speaker 2:It's fine, it will literally be snowing when we land.
Speaker 1:It's fine, it's fine, but we are celebrating our four year anniversary. What year did?
Speaker 2:we dating 2014. Nailed it so um almost 11 years correct. It's crazy. How does that make you feel? Um, I should have an answer for this uh yes, speechless, my breath is taken, I am without words. Uh no, it doesn't make me feel old, because I don't feel old, but it, um, I don't know, I don't want to say. It doesn't make me like feel anything because I, of course, I love you and I'm like so excited.
Speaker 1:I feel nothing.
Speaker 2:I feel nothing but like I don't know, I think we've just been together for so long and I'd be interested to have, like I mean, a lot of people's takes on it who've been married a long time. But I'd be interested to like get my parents take on it, because they were, like us high school sweethearts dated for a long time before.
Speaker 2:They were like everything is different but nothing has changed yeah you know, like I don't know if that is fair or makes sense, like um, for people we know that have gotten married and they ask what changes with marriage. I'm like you're going to wake up next week and you're going to do the exact same stuff that you were doing before, but somehow everything is different and I kind of feel the same way. You're going to pass that yawn to me.
Speaker 1:It's almost our bedtime.
Speaker 2:Pass that yawn to me. It's almost our bedtime. Pass that yawn to me. Um, I feel like we, I don't know, I, I'm I'm rambling kind of about nothing, but like it, just honestly, it makes me excited because I still feel a lot of the giddiness that I have felt for the past 11 years. Like I still get excited to see you, excited when you get home, um, I miss you when I'm traveling, like that's all stuff that feels the same as it did 11 years ago and I guess that's where I'm getting at, not that I don't feel anything, but that like I feel nothing it it could be year four, and it could be year eight, and it could be year 12 and year 20 and it all like I.
Speaker 2:I like I think we'll touch on this later like I love how you've grown as a person and I love how our relationship has grown, and like it certainly has grown for the better, but like I don't know, you're still very similar to the person that I met when you were 16 and I'm sure I'm still very similar to the person you met when you were 16.
Speaker 1:Those core qualities are still there.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But I just, I love that we got to grow up together and, like now, we get to grow old together.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I just feel like it's crazy how much life we've experienced together, like we've done pretty much every major milestone together.
Speaker 2:We didn't get first communion together. That's a big one.
Speaker 1:I don't think I would be allowed to be dating any boys at eight years old. So I mean yeah, you're right and you did you did your first communion two years before I did, so that was. You would have been like six.
Speaker 2:Oh that we should have talked about this in peak and pit. Hang on. We did go to a First Communion this past weekend.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, that was definitely a highlight, that was definitely a peak because it's a really cute.
Speaker 2:Our niece, Jenny, she got her First Communion. It was really cute.
Speaker 1:Yes, we love going to First Communions and baptisms and, oh my gosh, the new Pope.
Speaker 2:Oh yes, that was crazy. Pope Leo, first American pope.
Speaker 1:I think sorry to like pivot and rant here for a minute. I just think it is so cool that, like so many different kinds of people come together just to like acknowledge, like when the new pope comes up, like it is such a monumental, worldwide thing. I was at work when it was going on and I like had my phone up and I was just watching it and like people were walking by and like some people like those hidden Catholics out there they were holding their phones too.
Speaker 1:I'm like, oh my gosh, like what church do you go to? Well?
Speaker 2:I think it's also like it's like a celebrity event as well, like you know, it's like it's just. It happens rarely. I'm trying to think about like other. It's not like the super bowl, but kind of where it's like it's just something that, like when it's going on, people care about it because it happens so rarely and it's such an important figure yeah, like, whether you're catholic or not, or religious or not, you know what the catholic church is, you know, and like you know, who the pope is.
Speaker 2:You know you could know nothing about religion, but you know there's a guy in rome named pope, whatever yeah um, and I think one of the things that's really interesting about pope leo um is something that we both have noticed is he's getting a lot of praise from a lot of like kind of from both sides of the aisle, which I think is kind of interesting, like yeah, like bringing people together already yeah, well, and like I don't even know.
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm sure he's, he, he's considering it bringing people together, but like I think, just the way, like if you read some of his early statements he's made as pope and like some of the things he's focused on, he's being, um, people, just kind of like him I don't know how else to say it like he's, yeah, he's hitting a note with the traditionalists that they really like.
Speaker 2:And he's hitting a note with the traditionalists that they really like, and he's hitting a note with the general public that I think pope francis hit that people like yeah um.
Speaker 2:So I you know we'll see. I'm sure in like two months everybody will hate him, but uh, I I like him. I like a lot of his readings and I think it's cool. Or a lot of his early um early announcements and I think it's cool that he's like a chicago sports fan yeah, like just a normal guy, yeah he's just a normal like his, his. I read an interview where his brother gave it and they call him rob.
Speaker 2:I'm like his name's, rob like he's the pope dude, um, and he, he like. In the interview he corrected himself. He was like yeah, you know rob and I. And then he's like well, I guess, pope leo and I and I was like could you imagine Knowing the?
Speaker 1:Pope on such a personal level.
Speaker 2:They probably beat each other up. Growing up they were complaining about what they ate for dinner from their mom.
Speaker 1:It's just crazy. Yeah, no, so that was a big highlight. That was so cool that it happened so fast and who maybe this was one of our parents said this.
Speaker 2:Somebody said this. And who maybe this was one of our parents said this. Somebody said this. It's a really good showcase for why it's so important to like bring your kids to mass and like have your kids, oh yeah, yeah, it was something I saw on Instagram. Yeah, okay, yeah, someone posted Because Mother's Day.
Speaker 1:It was like a it was just a post on Mother's Day and they were shouting out his mom, which I think his name.
Speaker 2:Her name was Mildred, she's just like a that checks out Midwest woman. Just like a.
Speaker 1:Midwestern lady raising her kids in the 60s, 70s, whatever, and she had three boys, and Pope Leo was one of them, and so the whole post was like, just like a affirmation to all mothers out there, like sometimes you don't understand why you're dragging your kids to mass like it's so.
Speaker 1:It seems so hard they're throwing cheerios everywhere and you feel like all your work is going to nothing some days, and like the post was like remember, like you could be raising mildred, probably like she's passed now and she had no idea that her son, one of her sons, we're gonna, we're gonna be the pope one day, like that's just so cool. Like you don't know, like the adults that you were forming yeah, in your household like it's worth the effort. So happy mother's day to all the mothers out there.
Speaker 2:So uh, back to our actual topic, katie, because yes, four year anniversary. That was our riff that we should have had at the start I know that's.
Speaker 1:We do this a lot, yeah, but um, I just did start for your anniversary, so we just want to take a minute to kind of reflect a little bit on the past four years.
Speaker 2:Um, joe, you wanted to so what have what has changed in me for the better in the last four years? That's the question I wanted to ask you oh, that's what you wanted to ask me.
Speaker 1:I thought we were doing like personal reflections here.
Speaker 2:No, it's not a personal, because, like we talk about ourselves a lot, that's true, that's true, I mean and ultimately, like, of course, I like I. It doesn't matter what's changed within me when it comes to our marriage. I think what matters is how I, how you have perceived the change within me and how I perceive the change within you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no, I think the biggest thing that comes to mind is that you have always, always been so good at.
Speaker 2:So so Wait, what's that song?
Speaker 1:Good yeah, yeah, sorry I'm not joining in on your worship song this time.
Speaker 2:Sorry.
Speaker 1:You've been so good to me. No, I couldn't yeah.
Speaker 2:Sorry, You've been so good to me. No, I couldn't yeah now I can't even remember.
Speaker 1:You've been just really good at like analyzing me. You know like when we were younger you were just like.
Speaker 2:You're a problem to be solved. I'm just kidding.
Speaker 1:I'm just kidding you were just like over analyzing, like the things that I did, the way that I like the tone of my voice, like you're just such, you are truly like. You are a problem solver and I was a puzzle to be solved and I didn't make a lot of sense most days, but I feel like since we've been married, you have now shifted from analyzing me to just like knowing me and like no, I mean for habitual human beings.
Speaker 1:I have habits, I do things. I I probably make the same face before I get upset, like you probably pick up on all those little things, and I will say it's helped because I've learned I need to be a little bit more like, forthcoming with you about the things that I want and expect and like not be such a romantic about wishing you could just read my mind I want and expect and like, yes, not be such a romantic about wishing you could just read my mind I've. But I've learned, though by just being forthcoming, like it helps.
Speaker 1:It's like preventative in the future, like, okay, I said it once and like now it's in your brain and now you're just so good at like knowing me for who I am and like predicting, like the things that I need, like when I need a snack or something like earlier today or when to take it personally or not? Yeah, but yeah no.
Speaker 2:Earlier today I was like Katie, we're going to do this one thing. But I can see it. You need to get a snack after this.
Speaker 1:Well, and I knew I was hungry too, but I was just really trying to get everything done, but you were right.
Speaker 2:So just like little things like that I really appreciate, because it's just like um, a testament to how much like we are just getting to know each other so much better. Yeah, I would say for you. I guess it's twofold. I think number one it would be and you mentioned it, I think you, you kind of stepped out of your comfort zone to um kind of I don't want to say, like you certainly haven't lost that, like you still want the romantic side of everything, but you've, you've been willing to be more direct with asking what you want and not getting frustrated or upset when you know if I'm not reading your mind early on, you're not holding that grudge against me for, like, why didn't you see that? Why didn't you see that?
Speaker 2:why, didn't you know that? And like I'm very thankful because ultimately, no matter how much I want to try and analyze what's going on and predict, like I am just a dumb guy and there's a million times where excuse me, I'm gonna literally cannot stop.
Speaker 2:We had had Mexican food before we recorded, and I had a cervezas and it's making me burp, but I really do just feel like you communicate with me to help communicate with you in the future.
Speaker 2:Communicate with you in the future.
Speaker 2:And the other thing, honestly and I think I've said this, but like I'm just so blessed, thankful, blown away by, like how independent and strong you've become since we've gotten married.
Speaker 2:Like not even since, like you, we were dating, but like in the past four years, like I can't imagine Katie from six years ago dating me, traveling two days a week or two nights a week, you know, but like you took it with a lot of grace and you like never resented me for it or never held it against me, and like you've been so strong in that and like, and I see how you want to lead you know, our future family and I think that really excites me and I think that is something that I don't know if I ever really not. I don't want to say I never saw it coming because clearly, like, I married you for a reason, but I just I'm surprised at how quickly you shifted from being a girlfriend to being a wife yeah, well, I think that's like a testament to what happens when you step into your calling, like things just kind of fall it's very true when you, yeah, like when you step into your calling, it is just like things fall into place.
Speaker 1:Like you, you grow in these areas that you were not able to grow in before because you just weren't here. Yeah, and I feel like our marriage as a whole, like we both, like this was our calling, like we were called to be married together and maybe hopefully we're four years into it.
Speaker 2:We'll see, but test driving it.
Speaker 1:And I feel like we have both just like grown immensely, like in our faith and like that's how I know like we've grown so much is because I remember in the early beginnings of our marriage, like something that I would bring up to you is like I, just I want to feel like not only led by God, you know, in my own individual faith, but I want to know that, like you, are also leading our family and leading us as a couple, and I do feel like you've taken on that role so well in the past four years.
Speaker 2:But I have to give you credit because I actually think, like, for our future family, I think you will be, and now we're getting into the out here, I'll, I'll uh say this statement with a new premise, like what are some of your hopes for our next four years and for the future? And I will say, one of my hopes for me personally is is that I can take an even bigger leap in helping guide our family closer to God, because I think right now you are the spiritual backbone of our family.
Speaker 1:Well, and I think we do it differently yeah that's true. I have always been like a silent warrior, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like no matter where I have been in life, like I don't. The assassin I'm not one to be like all right, everybody in the room, let's get together and hold hands and pray and like, pray away the demons. Not that like you're like that because you're everybody knows me.
Speaker 2:When we get together for dinner, who feels the most sick?
Speaker 1:let's all lay hands not like, you're like that at all, but I am, just. I'm the kind of person that's okay. Let's creep away in the morning and, like like, set the tone for the day, like. Let's like say this novena for the intention of whatnot Like yeah. I've just been really big on, I don't know, just like doing things in the quiet and like really praying for our family in that regard. But you, I feel like are, oh my gosh, Lucy.
Speaker 1:I don't think they can hear you, I feel like are oh my gosh lucy, I don't think they can hear. Maybe they can well, if you can hear. She's literally napping and she dreams in her sleep and she, and she's literally whimpering she whimpers in her sleep but, um, you are one to just like I don't know like you, when you think of something to pray for, you do do it right there.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And like I feel like that gives me a lot of like confidence in you and like the way that you like want to carry our family and carry us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I think that it uh, we both want to just continue to be better, right. And like, um, I think there is a fear that I don't know if we've ever actually spoken about this, but I think it's a fear we kind of had, not not something we actually think will happen, but it's just a natural fear is like what happens when you lose the spark, you know, because, like, we've been watching shows or randomly, and like we've just talked to the you know, oh well, that'll, you know, we hope that never happens, or whatever. But like, I mean, I'm sure you go through phases where it's easier and harder, but ultimately, I think if when you, when when married couples, lose the spark, they lose it because they just are kind of tired of being with each other, like they just stop trying, you know. And there are days where, of course, like I'm, I don't like, I don't feel like loving you, but I try to because it's what I want, you know, does that make sense?
Speaker 2:Does that sound bad? I don't know. But like I, I want to love you. Therefore, I do love you, you know, and I want to have a successful marriage. So I try hard at it and I think, the way. A lot of people work is well. I need to feel in love, to love you.
Speaker 1:Well, that's what I was going to say. Emotions vary day to day. Emotions are dictated not only by the way you're feeling and thinking in that moment.
Speaker 2:How hungry you are.
Speaker 1:Your hormones. Like hormones, like so many things, impact your emotions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but.
Speaker 1:I've never, once doubted how you like, the way you view me and the way that you like love me, despite your emotions.
Speaker 2:I'm not very emotional. Well, I know I'm teasing. Maybe I'm speaking for myself, I know myself.
Speaker 1:I know but um, but yeah, and I think also something that's been I guess, to touch on, what do we hope for in the future? Um, hope, I think, has been a really really prevailing theme in like the past four years of our marriage yeah um, and I feel like the the struggle for hope makes me want to hold on to the hope even more in the future what do you mean?
Speaker 2:basically we're both burping.
Speaker 1:The mexican food is really bad time to find bad time to record a podcast. Um, basically, I the the saying, and I think I've said this before like don't have high hopes. I want to have high hopes. I want to start believing that God can and will do miracles in my life and trust that good things will come. There was a time.
Speaker 1:Truly for a while, the past couple of years, I've just been so afraid to let myself hope for good things because, because of the expectations and the fear of disappointment, and the fear of like holding on to something that might never happen for me, and so I think that what I want for our future, for at least the next four years, is to see that shift and maybe not you but me, because that's something I've struggled with is see that shift and like shifting to hoping and knowing that like hope doesn't disappoint, like hope and god does not disappoint why doesn't it disappoint?
Speaker 1:well, we have some news katie joe you well this is your moment to shine we are expecting our first baby, a little baby, I know there's a little baby inside, I know and it has been. I'm 17 weeks there you go um. We haven't said what you're pregnant.
Speaker 2:You're announcing this to me on the podcast, could? You imagine that would have been a good reaction yeah, that would have been a.
Speaker 1:That would be a fun actually you told me immediately well, because there's so much, just like so much to share but yes, katie is pregnant, but we yeah, we haven't shared that with anybody well, hang on.
Speaker 2:Yes, we've okay sorry.
Speaker 1:We're there. We've shared it with our close friends and family, but we haven't, like, posted this publicly, so this will be the first yeah well, I think this will be the first, but this is a big moment and I haven't I don't know, I think I've been like nervous to share it, partly because of, you know, the fear of like what could go wrong yeah and then also it's just been like so special to like hold this together yeah you know, and like hold this in our hearts and like right now nothing has really changed about our lives, but like everything is about to change and it's just like fascinating and it feels really sacred to be in a space like this.
Speaker 1:So if you've been listening the past few weeks, probably wondering why we bought a house like, why they're so chaotic, why, like, why has the tone shifted? It's because we've just been waiting for, like, basically this trigger moment to like shapeshift our entire lives.
Speaker 2:So I think people are going to let me. So, first and foremost I'm sure people probably guess have guests from our podcast. But I want to. I want to be the audience here for a second and ask you so what do you think changed for us?
Speaker 1:What do you mean?
Speaker 2:How, like how did we get pregnant?
Speaker 1:oh, should we go on the nitty-gritty? Yeah, okay, so long story short because we went I mean we talked about it in our infertility journey, right well, and I don't even think I shared the details there I um so last summer when I around the same time after that, I had shared our infertility journey. I had undergone a surgery for endometriosis.
Speaker 2:I think they knew that.
Speaker 1:I feel like I briefly touched on it.
Speaker 2:No, our podcast episode. This is a great episode podcast. Anyway, go ahead.
Speaker 1:Anyways, I had a surgery done and I had been seeing this doctor since last December and she was a Napro physicianologist napro physician, I think, napro short for something, and I can't remember right now what it means at the top of my head, but it is basically just a um. It's really common amongst like the catholic holistic world where they just work with your body and try to find the different like things that are off in your body to help understand, like why your body is incapable of conceiving in a way that it's biologically made to do so.
Speaker 1:I had been working with her, changing our lifestyles, and we've touched on this before Vitamins, all the things.
Speaker 2:No beer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and Joe couldn't drink.
Speaker 2:Holy cow.
Speaker 1:Like just a lot of things that I was willing to change and hoping that would just work right away and it didn't, and so anyways found out that we had I had endometriosis.
Speaker 2:We had it, we had it, we are pregnant.
Speaker 1:We had endometriosis and we did I did the surgery.
Speaker 2:We both had the surgery. They were very confused when I went in.
Speaker 1:I did the surgery in June and the doctor was great. She was very, I mean, the recovery wasn't horrible and she basically I was under the impression that it was going to, we were going to get pregnant within the next few months and that did not happen. We weren't pregnant. It was sad, I was devastated and by the time, you know, I was hoping that we would find a solution before she left, because she ended up moving to Texas and we didn't, and it just kind of felt like the most like limbo area of our lives, like we had spent all this time investing in something that we thought was going to fix this and new problems came up and then my doctor was gone and so kind of I guess to long story short this, we ended up seeing a doctor here in Greenville and I was very against, against it yeah.
Speaker 1:Because I just did not want to be told that the only option was IVF or IUI. Yeah, now, looking back, I have so much empathy and understanding for people who do go that route. I truly, truly do, and I'm not judging you.
Speaker 2:It's just not something we wanted to do.
Speaker 1:And there's. I'm not judging you, it's just not something we wanted to do. But at the time I really understand, like where you know where that desire comes from. I understand the desperation and the longing for a family and I felt that in my heart and I just did not want to be told that because that was just not something that I was willing to do. And we had met with a couple of doctors who basically told me that that I was willing to do. And we had met with a couple doctors who basically told me that and I was pretty over it and I had this one more appointment that I was just not willing to go to and I did not want them to tell me the same thing.
Speaker 1:And I ended up meeting with her and I think I was so tired and just so fed up with all the appointments and like the lack of solution and answers I the first thing I did was I was like hi, I'm Katie, I sent you all my paperwork, all the things, my surgery, all of my history, and I don't know what to do.
Speaker 1:And I started crying yeah, it's like, oh, it's okay, like I. By the time people see me, usually they're exhausted and so I this is normal. And I was just like I don't know what to say anymore, like I don't know what you could possibly offer to me. And she was so nice, like if you were in the midst, in the midst of the same struggle and maybe you're trying to take things like the holistic way and trying to do things the natural way and you're getting frustrated and you're charting and you're taking the pills and you're trying, trying so hard to control every aspect of your life and your fertility. Um, this is your sign to basically take a break. And what does that mean? Like that used to frustrate me so much when people would say just take a step back, take a break. But when this doctor looked me in the eyes and said you know you don't have to do that anymore, I was like come again.
Speaker 2:Say that what?
Speaker 1:What do you mean? And she was just like unless you want to, and it makes you feel better, I'm telling you you don't have to chart anymore. You don't have to take the pills, the vitamins, the supplements. You don't have to do all the tracking like yeah you can stop that for a little bit. And I was like well, what am I supposed to do?
Speaker 2:and she basically was like let me do it for you yeah, and that was really nice, like I remember you called me afterwards and you were like I just feel so relieved and I.
Speaker 1:I just didn't really consider that as an option, yeah, um, anyways. So I was like, okay, what does it look like to do this with you?
Speaker 2:so again, long story short, we ended up taking an ovulation medication, found out that I was not ovulating correctly they do an ultrasound to check to see, um how uh developed the eggs are, and our katie called me afterwards and she said I saw our children and I said I had two.
Speaker 1:You cannot get your hopes up like that, like that is you're.
Speaker 2:You're setting yourself up on the path of failure. Literally, did I or you know?
Speaker 1:I didn't know she was right, I was wrong I know that was one of those eggs was literally your child. Anyways, that's crazy, um, but so we took this medication it's called letrozole and then I did a trigger shot. It was like an overdraw shot and it was such a seamless, easy process. Yeah, there was no tracking involved. She told me when to take the medicine, she told me when to do the shot, like she told us everything. And then she told us when to take the pregnancy test and it was negative. It was negative, and so we were super bummed.
Speaker 2:And then katie I, I always tell her I'm like when you take the pregnancy test, I want to be there, because she used to take them by herself and she'd get really sad. And I said I don't want you to do that, let's do it together, so that way you know, when it's negative at least we'll be together. And lo and behold, the next morning, there, we bought a pregnancy pack like a pack of two. The next morning, there, we bought a pregnancy pack like a pack of two. The next morning, at like 6 30, she busts open the bathroom door and, like whisper, yells like joe, I'm pregnant. And I was like what? No, you're not. And she was like yeah. And then we spent the next like 20 minutes like I was reading all the instructions. I was like this isn't real. Like Like you were not pregnant yesterday.
Speaker 1:How was that happening?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and here we are 17 weeks pregnant.
Speaker 1:Well, and this is just like the example of like how much we were trying to temper our expectations and, in a sense, like not allow ourselves to like believe in the hope that was happening in front of us. We didn't really.
Speaker 2:Katie took another pregnancy test.
Speaker 1:Like we already had an ultrasound where they confirmed that or no, not an ultrasound we did, like the blood test, the blood test where they confirmed katie was pregnant, but she still took a pregnancy test I, like we were just in such disbelief and like not willing to like trust that this good thing could finally happen to us. But it did and it did. And now we're 17 weeks in and, of course, like I still have my fears and it makes me nervous sharing this, but I I think that the same thing that when I shared, when we shared our infertility journey, like we were flooded with so many prayers and so many that was the most you know.
Speaker 2:it's funny, I actually I was looking back at our like, our podcast numbers and that that's our best performing episode since our like initial two episodes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like people really came together and I like I don't think I realized how much I needed to know that and I I truly felt I don't know. I just I felt like the prayers carrying us through and this was a really tough like start to the year, Cause you I mean you were start to the year, cause you I mean you were ready to after this you didn't like the shot that you know. I didn't really love the way the medicine and we were going to we were going to stop.
Speaker 1:Well, the day that we thought we were negative, I remember calling my mom and I'm crying and I'm like mom, I, I don't want to do that again. I just want to move on. I'm ready to change and stop waiting for this. If it's not going to happen, I want to go back to school. I want to do all these things. I need to find a different purpose. And mom was just like you got it, honey, you do that, Do what you feel called to do right now. And I was like this is what I'm called to do. And then the next day we called her within seconds after the test and I was like just kidding can I not work anymore yeah, literally, instead of going to school, can I actually not work anymore, ever?
Speaker 1:yeah, so um, go ahead, oh jinx well, I want.
Speaker 2:So I think we were. We wanted to talk about hope, um, but, as I know, like we're, I think it's important too for us to celebrate and I think people will want to know, like the story aspect of it, but how, how did you maintain hope through about it and like, kind of, how's your outlook on it changed? Like I know, you gave that women's session talk and katie wrote it. I'm gonna speak for you a little bit and then let you speak. But, um, for dyC, we did these, you know, workshops. I think we've mentioned that, but Katie's was on hope and she wrote it before we were pregnant.
Speaker 2:And it was basically how do you have hope when it seems like there's?
Speaker 1:there's none.
Speaker 2:there's no reason to, and by the time you actually gave it, you were pregnant it was crazy and I think that's so interesting and I, I just, I love that little tidbit of the story.
Speaker 2:So no, I'm glad you pointed that out, because I kind of forgot that little fact because I remember you wrote it and you told me you're like, I feel like I'm lying to these girls yeah, I, I had such a hard time putting this together and I kept praying and like asking what topic I should talk, and this was the only thing hope just kept coming up.
Speaker 1:And I was like God, I don't even know how to talk about hope. How am I supposed to do this? And I remember sitting in a coffee shop by myself for hours staring at the screen, for hours, staring at this screen, like at the top of my screen. I said can hope disappoint? That was the question I wanted to answer with my workshop and literally dot dot dot, yes, yes, yes, yes, it disappoints. I'm so disappointed, like I was disappointed with myself. I couldn't get through the talk, I couldn't finish it, I didn't feel like I was connecting with any of the words I was saying and it's just so crazy that, like all of it came together. I remember the day after I found out I was pregnant, I like looked back over my talk, tweaked it, and I was like this is everything I needed to hear. It wasn't even about, like what I needed to share with these women. It was what it, like god, was like what do you need to hear right now? Like that's, what chances are, that's what other women need to hear too yeah.
Speaker 2:So, uh, katie, what are the four?
Speaker 1:you have four steps to hope, yeah so I've talked about this before, and I just also want to touch on the fact that this is the jubilee year of hope yes, it is and I've brought that up before and how much Pope Francis just took a liking to my heart as I read the Bull of Indictment, which is the document he wrote on the Jubilee Year of Hope, and that's, honestly, the basis of what my workshop was. But before I get into the, I basically pulled different tidbits and different topics from his document and I I made it into four steps to hope. When you're feeling hopeless, how do you find the hope, where do you find the hope and what are the four steps to getting there? And so that was the basic premise of my workshop.
Speaker 1:But a quote that I really think is important to touch on. It's a quote by Jackie Hill. She's just a popular Christian speaker and she said God unravels the fragility of our hope so that you will see him and recognize that he is the safest place for your hope to hide, and I love that quote.
Speaker 1:And I feel like that is so pertinent to just like where we were in life and I felt so fragile, especially towards the end of 2024.
Speaker 2:And it says hope hides right.
Speaker 1:It says God unravels the fragility of our hope so that you will see him and recognize that he is the safest place for your hope to hide. Yeah, yeah, I like that it's so good, because I feel like if you're not hiding your hope with God, where are you hiding it? And chances are it doesn't feel safe there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or like where is it taking refuge and what is your hope in ultimately, and chances are, if you're constantly feeling disappointed in the quote unquote hope that you're hiding behind, chances are you're not hiding it behind God, because he will keep your hope safe and you will cherish and treasure that hope and he will show you that that hope is true. And I recognize that my I was hiding hope in all the wrong places.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I was hiding it in my future, I was hiding it just in our marriage and I was hiding it behind myself. Whatever it may be, I was hiding it in all the wrong places and it was a tough end of 2024 into 2025.
Speaker 2:And it's just crazy how, when you, you were hoping in the doctors.
Speaker 1:Hoping yes in the doctors.
Speaker 2:And I think that's a key thing. And in practical terms, when people say, okay, what the heck does that actually mean? And I'm not dissing you, but when you say, you know, if your hope's not in God, well then it's not safe there, I'm like, okay, what is that? I don't understand that. I understand it, but I think that what it actually means is, like, if you're putting your hope in something worldly, if you're saying, well, if this is the doctor who will fix it, this is the doctor who will, you know, finally figure out my fertility, or this is the relationship that will finally make me happy, that's just not the case.
Speaker 1:You won't be happy.
Speaker 2:That's not what can do it.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Just a quick verse here to touch on like the hope of it all Philippians 1, 6,. He says he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion. On the hope of it all, philippians 1, 6 he says he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ. I'll say that again, he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ. And this, I feel like, is the epitome of what God is saying. As far as hope goes, the hope, what it means to have hope in God, is trusting that he will finish the work he has started. So if you don't feel like that work is finished, then there's hope, there is an end to it. That is his promise to us. He will absolutely always finish the work that he started in you and he will never leave anything unfinished. So anyways, jumping right into the four steps, yeah.
Speaker 1:And we don't need to go into detail to the in this, all of this. If you went to my workshop, then congratulations, you were there and I was actually pregnant Surprise. But the four steps that I kind of acknowledged that helped me kind of get out of that dark place was so the paragraph was labeled a word of hope. So step one I made what is hope, remember what the hope is. And then the second topic was the journey of hope. And then the third was signs of hope.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And then the last one is anchored in hope. So those were kind of like the four quote unquote steps.
Speaker 2:And I liked them and I like. I think it's an easy thing to kind of go back to, because it is you have to first to, you know, discover hope, and to have it, you have to know what it is yeah.
Speaker 1:What is hope?
Speaker 2:Right, you have to look for it.
Speaker 1:I think that's the second one right, a journey of hope.
Speaker 2:A journey try to discover it. Third, look for the signs look for the sign slash.
Speaker 1:Be the hope. Yeah and be the hope.
Speaker 2:And then the fourth one is make that hope, and you know, your anchor yeah keep it close to your heart yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Um. So yeah, I mean, I don't, I don't want to, like I could talk hours I know you could and I know that we can't, maybe we'll make it a two-parter maybe we will, but I, I think I we wanted to bring that up just because it felt really significant to this pregnancy and like where we are right now and like we can carry I don't know we can carry that hope with us.
Speaker 2:So what do you hope for for the next four years?
Speaker 1:more babies, more babies, for a healthy maybe not.
Speaker 2:Maybe we'll have one and we'll be like whoa. Probably not probably not.
Speaker 1:We both grew up with big families yeah, I know um gosh, I just feel like there's so much hope and it just truly feels like such a gift because I never, I never could say that before with confidence and I my biggest like I said earlier, my biggest hope is that I never lose like side of that hope so, okay, I don't want you to say what this means for my season of life. Joe doesn't like how frou-frou I talk.
Speaker 2:What are you most excited for with the baby? I want something like baby shoes or like going on a walk with her in the stroller. Okay, here's my legitimate answer.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'm excited for the community.
Speaker 2:Oh, come on, Wait what is wrong with that?
Speaker 1:That is a legitimate answer.
Speaker 2:Fine.
Speaker 1:I mean, I truly am, because I felt like I was.
Speaker 2:You were ostracizing yourself, yeah.
Speaker 1:I was Not because I wasn't happy for other women who had beautiful families.
Speaker 2:Or that they weren't welcoming.
Speaker 1:Yeah, not because anyone was, no, everybody's very welcoming. I just had such a hard time because I longed for it so deeply. But now I feel like I can finally celebrate people with like true authenticity. And, with that being said, I'm excited to have a baby to grow up in a cool, awesome community. Like I feel like we've talked about community so much the past couple episodes like how crazy is it that we get to? Everything is just kind of coming together and this child can grow up with such awesome like friendships and like mentors. To look up to that were some of our same mentors this is true.
Speaker 2:Do you want to know what I can't wait for?
Speaker 1:you're probably gonna say, like shoes, I can't wait to put them in a little, I them in a little ravens onesie on sundays.
Speaker 2:That's I'm like I've. You have no idea how excited I am. Sit there, watch on the couch with them. Watch the the ravens game yeah, I'm so pumped.
Speaker 1:oh yeah, that'll be fun. Like I'm excited for the traditions, the traditions that we finally get to start, and like Maybe the first Christmas at our house. Yeah, like I just can't wait to see the world again through this child's eyes, and I feel like there's so much growing that we're going to do yes, just like within the next couple of years, and that excites me.
Speaker 2:There we go, yes, and that excites me there we go, yes, you're pregnant.
Speaker 1:So much to talk about. We're finally putting it out there in the world. We appreciate all of your prayers.
Speaker 2:All of those people who have been walking with us. Please pray for Lucy. There's a thunderstorm right now and she's very anxious about it. She is anxious.
Speaker 1:So if you've heard shuffling in the background, that's been our Lucy girl, but we will keep you posted. For sure we appreciate more prayers just for the healthy baby that we are growing.
Speaker 2:There's a little baby inside of you.
Speaker 1:And yeah, that's it. I don't think I'm speechless, Like I don't even know what else to say, but I do instead of a oh, Lucy's about to pull the cord.
Speaker 2:Don't do that, Lucy, but she's like. You got to wrap your time's up. Oh, Lucy's about to pull the cord.
Speaker 1:Don't do that, Lucy.
Speaker 2:She's like, you got to wrap your time's up.
Speaker 1:I do want to instead of our marriage meeting. I do want to end. This is a poem that I wrote a couple of years ago on a silent retreat, and Joe thinks that we have talked about this image before and we might have Gosh. I usually write down the title and I've already lost.
Speaker 1:We'll have a link to it, sister grace remington, I believe, is the artist, and it is a picture of eve and mary in the garden and eve um, I will have a link to it or of the photo, and I encourage you to look at this photo while I read the poem, because this is the photo that I was looking at when I read the poem or when I wrote the poem. But basically, eve is looking down, holding and gripping onto her apple, and Mary is pregnant with Jesus and they both have their hands on her belly and it is just like the most beautiful image. It is a great picture. It is just such a good picture to meditate on, and that's something that I shared with all the ladies in my workshop was. At the end of the workshop, the one thing that I wanted everyone to know is, I said I want every woman to know that their strength comes from their hope. A strong woman who never gives up her hope can change the world, because hope never disappoints. So I want you to look at this image and then I'm going to read this poem and I titled it Eve's Redemption Story.
Speaker 1:It says I can hear her coming, the sound of leaves crushing beneath her gentle feet, the sound of leaves crushing beneath her gentle feet. Her spirit rustles through the trees and pain radiates as stones press into my feet and the snake tightens his grip on me. Go, he hisses, and so I go. I hide behind the trees, afraid of what her look will do to me. No light can shine on these weeds that grow rampant in my heart, and no, no, it can't. I can't allow the light to reveal my mortality. And so I stumble faster and farther an uphill steep, allowing the stones to dig deep into my wounded feet, until I trip on the very snake that holds on to me and I hit the ground.
Speaker 1:At last, I'm where I'm supposed to be, where I deserve to be. Oh, but the heat of her light burns my cheeks as if transparently unveiling that I have no light to see. And so I wait at her feet, where I deserve to be. So hesitantly, our fingers meet and she pulls up, pulls me up, so she can touch my blushing cheeks. Her gaze is piercing, longing, waiting to lock eyes with me, and so I do, clutching tightly the apple of deceit. I wait for her to cast her stone on me, her hand outstretched, I wait. Her hand outstretched, reaching I wait. Her hand outstretched, reaching. I wait, wait, she's reaching. But the gentle curve of her smile, it's calming, her touch, it's familiar, like she knows me, and she places my other hand on her rounded belly. Thump, the kick of my savior, it's startling. Restoring me to my knees, I place my apple at her feet.
Speaker 2:Beautiful.
Speaker 1:That's it.
Speaker 2:I love it.
Speaker 1:Well, we hope you enjoy this episode and you can celebrate with us.
Speaker 2:Congrats on being pregnant, Katie.
Speaker 1:Thank you. Congrats on finally being a dad. Thank, you. We can't wait for this season and we are excited to continue growing with you guys.
Speaker 2:And never give up on hope.
Speaker 1:Absolutely not. Hope does not disappoint, and let's keep growing together.
Speaker 2:Bye, y'all Bye, so Thank you.