The Vine with Joe & Katie Devine
As branches of the same divine Vine, we embrace the power of community and the guidance of faith, aiming to inspire and uplift our listeners as we collectively journey toward greater understanding and connection. Welcome to a space where vulnerability meets wisdom and where, together, we discover the beauty of being intertwined in the vine of life.
The Vine with Joe & Katie Devine
Sow It Begins: Sowing The Good Soil and Where to Start
We've all been there—that moment when life's big transitions make us question where we're rooted. Whether it's starting a family, moving to a new city, or facing unexpected challenges, these moments often spark a desire to reconnect with faith and find deeper community.
In this episode, we dive into what it means to restart or rekindle your faith journey using the Parable of the Sower as our guide. The seed that falls on the path, rocky ground, among thorns, or in good soil perfectly illustrates the different ways we respond to spiritual truths throughout our lives. We candidly share our own struggles with staying rooted during busy seasons and the subtle ways worldly concerns—from financial worries to social comparison—can choke out our spiritual growth without us even noticing.
What does it really mean to take root in good soil? We explore the two essential ingredients: genuine desire and trust in the process. Faith isn't a magic trick or instant solution—it's a relationship that requires cultivation, patience, and community. Throughout history, Christianity has survived precisely because it offers something real and sustaining to those who seek it.
Whether you're taking your first step toward faith or trying to find your way back after drifting, this conversation offers practical insights on overcoming common obstacles and creating the conditions for authentic spiritual growth. The journey isn't always straight, but with the right community and commitment, it leads to a life of deeper meaning and purpose.
Ready to get started (again)? Join us as we explore how to find good soil for your faith to flourish. Your spiritual roots might be dormant, but they're just waiting for the right conditions to grow.
Read along!!
The Parable of the Sower: Mark 4: 1 - 20
Reflection:
1. Where do you find your faith right now? Fallen onto the path? Falling on the rocks? Falling on the thorns? Sown on the Good soil?
2. What do you cling to when life feels hard? Do you feel supported in this?
3. As the sower, do you feel confident "sowing the seed freely"? Where do you feel God is calling you to "sow the seed" and share hope with others?
An exclusive from Dery Media Podcasts. Explore diverse perspectives and enrich your knowledge at derymedia.com. Telling stories that matter, sparking meaningful discussions.
Hello friends.
Speaker 2:Hello. I had to lean forwards towards the mic to say hello. This time I was leaned back, you also said I had to lean forwards.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Forwards like plural forwards.
Speaker 2:Forward, I think forwards is proper. I think you can just say forward, I think forwards like if you're leaning forward, like it's an action. I think forward is like a past tense, maybe Leaning forward.
Speaker 1:That's how I would say it. Four words I guess I'm known to say things wrong sometimes, but I just thought that was funny.
Speaker 2:Listen, I don't have an English degree.
Speaker 1:Well, hello everyone, Hello.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to the podcast.
Speaker 1:Welcome back to the Vine. I'm Katie.
Speaker 2:And I'm Joe.
Speaker 1:And oh, I switched it up.
Speaker 2:You already said it. Welcome back yet again to the Vine. I think people know where they're at. Yeah, this is episode like 25 or whatever 22, 3?. Heck yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh well, we've made it here, Still waiting on our first sponsorship. If anybody wants to throw us on your weekly bulletin, let us know Sponsored by OLR. Sponsored by our weekly bulletin. Well, we? What was I going to say?
Speaker 2:We're here. I don't know. We are here. Katie, what was your peak and pit this week?
Speaker 1:Well, okay, we can get right into it then.
Speaker 2:Is there anything else you wanted to say? No, I really had something important to say. Did you want to discuss forwards and backwards more?
Speaker 1:You know, I guess you're right, backwards is a thing Forwards. I just don't say that very often. Yeah, okay, peak and pit. We're a bit scrambled right now. We're very scrambled Can you tell this is like an accurate depiction of our brains. It's been a really busy week.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:We've had lots of company over. My family's been over. We've had friends over.
Speaker 2:Allie closed on her town home. We had other friends who just moved over to Greenville from Nashville. Shout out, daniel Nangel moved over to greenville from nashville shout out, daniel non-gel. Uh, and then we are selling our house. So we had an open house saturday and then we had a showing today it's been quite a lot, um, but truly like that's.
Speaker 1:I guess the pit is just feeling exhausted yeah and that's that's it. I really can't complain because I feel like a lot of the things that are happening are good things and we love that this is a joke, but I wanted to say, just because it's funny, like you look tired, but that's not, you don't? You look great, but I just I know, I just that joke didn't land.
Speaker 2:Now everyone's unhappy yeah, no one's happy, but I I had. It was like one of those things you know we're like. I know this is not what I should say, but I have to say it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, you said it. You don't look tired though, but I just I wanted to say it. I do look tired, though we both look pretty tired right now.
Speaker 2:We look disheveled.
Speaker 1:We do and our brains are scrambled. So that's, that's just the reality. But we're here and we're ready to record a podcast.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, well, that's your. What's your peak then?
Speaker 1:My peak. I think it's just like the growing community that we have, Like we already had such good community here.
Speaker 2:And then I just don't flaunt it to people who have bad community. I think everybody has an opportunity to have good community and I feel like that's kind of the not the main point of today's episode, but just like the main point of our whole podcast in general. It is a thousand percent the main point of our podcast.
Speaker 1:We had good community and I had nothing like no qualms with where we were at. And then God, this like past few months was like well, it can get even better.
Speaker 2:Take a look at this little number.
Speaker 1:So that's been really awesome. This little number so that's been really awesome. Um, but yeah, community I think just like knowing how much community is going to grow and be important to us in the next like few years is really cool. Um, and like reconnecting with like old friends and friendships and relationships I don't know, I just feel like we've kind of been sleeping on like just how good that could be for us.
Speaker 2:So yeah, and I think we've done like a lot, like you were at a baby shower with like a high school friend of yours. We saw some like. We've had a couple sets of friends recently moved to Greenville.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's been fun to rekindle. We haven't had to go anywhere. We're just right here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's really nice, and people come to our house, which is nice too, too.
Speaker 1:We love that but yeah, that's where we're at.
Speaker 2:So, other than feeling really scrambled and exhausted, a lot, of, a lot of like, it's for a good reason, so all is good how about you I would say my pit has been dealing with the mortgage company over the last like 10 days, um, mainly because and we love the house that we've bought and they've been good to deal with so far. But just like the, the back and forth is really annoying and we have not had, I would say, the most prompt service. And I'm not I'm not a karen when it comes to like following up and emailing people, because when you work in sales, you know how annoying it is to get bombarded with like what's my update? What's my update? What's my update?
Speaker 2:But with this I've like just tried to be very on top of stuff and say like, hey, what else do you need for me? What else do you need for me? And it was like radio silence for like two weeks of me emailing people saying like what do you need from us to get all this taken care of? And like where do we stand? And then I got an email on like I think it was thursday and it was like, hey, here's actually all this stuff that we need and we need it like immediately. And hey, also like we changed a bunch of stuff on your loan and I was like, oh, okay, wow, I would have loved to have been made aware of this, like two weeks ago when I asked you yeah um, so just dealing with that was frustrating and like, while it was like all going down, you were gone.
Speaker 2:The dogs were freaking out. I had like a mini fire drill at work and I was babysitting our godson and I was like there's a lot going on in my life right now, but it's it's, you know, it's uh good to try and get that experience in while we can. Yeah, yeah, I would say that for sure is my peak. I would say yeah to your point. The community has been a lot of fun. We went to a Polish festival today and that was a lot of fun. The food was absolutely delicious.
Speaker 1:I know my belly is full of pierogies Pierogi.
Speaker 2:And Daniel told us they cooked it the proper way, which is you boil it and then you pan fry it, and so it gets like it's not just like a dumpling, it gets crispy. Actually, I would say, my full peak is this weekend.
Speaker 1:We have eaten very good, very well, because we went to a new Korean place on Saturday too and that place was absolutely delicious. Arisu and Maldon.
Speaker 2:Yeah, shout out those guys. It was absolutely delicious. Get a little spicy pork.
Speaker 1:It was so good.
Speaker 2:And some teokbokki, Although when I ordered it she didn't know what.
Speaker 1:I said she was like what did you say?
Speaker 2:She was like you want a bulgogi and I'm like I'll just point to it on the menu. You say it so confidently too Well, I'm wrong, I don't know.
Speaker 1:Someone correct him please.
Speaker 2:Yeah, not a true Korean.
Speaker 1:But, yeah, so it's been, it's been fun. That's our little life update. Yeah, today we honestly, just like with the growing community and like the different relationships we've had, we've realized how pertinent it is, I think, and how, like, in this stage of life, a lot of people are longing for that rekindling of their faith and what I would say it is definitely prevalent.
Speaker 2:I would say maybe more prevalent in our stage of life, but I think it's pretty constant yeah that's true, that's true.
Speaker 1:I guess we're just noticing it a lot because a lot of our friends are like starting families and, like you know, getting the thick of adulting and what comes with. That is like I need stability, like I need something like wholesome to rely and be rooted in, and like yeah where do I start?
Speaker 2:that's been like a big question and where do you start in in particular in your faith right, like if, if you know, and I think what's interesting in like major life events as you change throughout your life, I think, are what kind of push you towards going back to the church. Like I think about, like we recognize it in our friend group because everybody's you know starting to have kids, or everybody is getting married, and like those are things that kind of push you more towards Christ.
Speaker 2:But, like I'm sure, if you're in your, you know your late 50s and you see your kids starting to get older. You know, you, that probably is another major. Or your kids start to get married, like that might be a life event that maybe pushes you back towards the faith again. Or you know you have health issues with your spouse. Or when you're younger, you know, even when you're in college, like we were. You know, last Sunday I was talking with one of the OLR kids who's, in his words, essentially having an existential crisis, and as like every 18 year old does when they get ready to go to college like what am I really supposed to do?
Speaker 2:and I think that during those big life changes, it's always like a good time to just get started again yeah like that's. You know we're gonna dive into the, the gospel of. Let's see who was it. Do we side mark um with the parable of the sower and like that's going to kind of be like our, what would you call it? Like our roadmap for?
Speaker 1:like talking about it, but.
Speaker 2:I think that you know wherever you're going in your life. There's always these kind of changes where you're going to be called back to God.
Speaker 1:Well, and that's something we've noticed in our lives too, and it's like such a seasonal thing. So, like big life changes happen, stressors happen, and you're like, whoa, I need to like crawl back to Jesus and it's been a while and I don't know how to do this again, like somebody help. And then when things are just kind of cruising and you're back in your routine, you figure things out. Maybe your kids are getting older, you're taking them to stalker practice and this and that, and you're busy. That's when you get back into the oh, I got this, like I don't need God. And then something happens. Your kids go to college and then just like, oh, I forgot, like I have forgotten again. So it's such a seasonal thing.
Speaker 1:So I feel like this is an important podcast for us to record, just to yeah you know, um, come back to ourselves, because we're already experiencing that and we're so young and like we would hope that we would have friends and people that we trust that would help us, you know. Get back to it.
Speaker 2:And I think that right before we go into the parable, like why would you say getting started is important? Like getting started and I guess we should clarify when we say get started kind of mean like re rekindle some fire in your faith or or whether or if you haven't had it, like where to start, take the first step and like why is?
Speaker 2:it important. What does that look like? Because ultimately, we go throughout our lives kind of searching for something. You know, we, we, everybody wants to be happy, everybody wants to find joy. I mean we've done multiple podcasts on that and on that direction. So ultimately, why do you find, katie, that people want to start that journey with these life decisions, big life decisions? Why do you feel like the faith is where they kind of end up?
Speaker 1:I just feel like, as humans, we want to keep growing.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And at a certain point you realize the limit to your capacity to grow on your own.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And whenever I mean that's just something I've noticed in myself I get really angsty when I'm like, okay, I know I need to grow in this area and I don't know how to do that on my own, and I really feel like it's when we get to our weakest not weakest maybe vulnerable yeah, when we get to that most vulnerable point is when we're like I, like I need this, yeah, um, but yeah, I don't know. I think that that and also I think it's ingrained in us yeah like whether or not we were raised in the faith.
Speaker 1:There is something deeply rooted in our hearts because we were created by god to long for him always yeah and like that, sometimes manifests in an unhealthy way and you might, you know, start worshiping something else, but there's always this desire in us to worship yeah our creator and it's important, I think, to have the people, the right people, in your life to help mold that desire in a healthy way.
Speaker 2:I think I would say, and I completely agree with everything you said, I think the way I see it as in practical is not the word I would necessarily use, because faith is about more than being practical. But it's true. Like I, I think of a lot of our friends who we know have moved to other cities where they don't have community and the church was a starting point for them. Like, um, a couple weeks ago we were at mass and this younger couple with a kid walked up to us and another couple friend, like another couple friend of ours, and just said hi, we're looking for a church.
Speaker 1:We don't know anyone. Yeah, we don't know anyone.
Speaker 2:How do we get involved?
Speaker 1:Such a brave thing to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which was awesome, and that's kind of what kick-started us thinking about this specific topic. But I love that they did that and I think that it's very clear, like they knew they just had to get started because they wanted that community and they saw how helpful it can be. And, like you know, we also think about, uh, friends who have moved here and they have young kids and they're like I know I'm gonna need babysitters, I know I'm gonna need daycare, right like, and getting plugged into a faith family helps.
Speaker 2:you do that yeah you know, or take it on the other hand like uh, you, you know. Your parents came to Mass with us today and they met somebody from their Crescio group who they knew, and the first thing he said was how much they'd been praying for your dad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know and to have that community where people all throughout the state were praying for your dad is really neat, you know, and there's a practical aspect of that where you know he's being supported by that. There was a family at our parish that the mother unfortunately she had cancer and she passed away. But throughout the whole time I mean they did multiple rounds of fundraising and dinners and like I think they did like a gala one time and like it's so cool, People just rally.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that's that's a very practical thing, and especially as, like, we're kind of becoming de-communitized. I don't know. It's a word, yeah sure it's a word, as we're spending less and less time with. You know we're not living in big cities. You know we seem to be less of a community, finding that is really important.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I tested my socializing, meeting new people, skills.
Speaker 2:Oh.
Speaker 1:It was not. It didn't go very well. I mean actually it went pretty well. I'm overthinking it everyone was like I thank goodness she left you brought up the the couple, because I was so like I just admired like their bravery and like just kind of confronting us and being like hey, we're new.
Speaker 1:Like my name is this matt, and I was just at a little shower and met a few girls that I hadn't known and I was like, okay, like you don't know, these girls like just butt in just be brave and I came in and I, I mean, don't love first impressions, I'm not, that's not my favorite thing, like get to know me down the line, like you'll really like you'll really just like skip to the part where we've been friends for two years, like. I promise you'll really learn to like me, but the first impressions aren't my favorite and I just sat up. I just walked right in while they were talking. I was like, hey, I'm Katie.
Speaker 2:No, you did not do that I'm not even kidding. You did not do that.
Speaker 1:I'm not ashamed. The moment I was like I probably could have gone about that better.
Speaker 2:There's a difference between like like like, between like being brave and, like you know, joining a conversation and just like being rude. I'm just teasing.
Speaker 1:I said hi, I'm Katie. What's your name?
Speaker 2:Hi, we're talking.
Speaker 1:I think I said sorry to interrupt, but I totally just interjected. I was like well, you know what Probably not the smoothest I'm envisioning you talking to Regina George in Mean Girls.
Speaker 2:You're like hi guys, I'm Katie.
Speaker 1:Which is that's actually. Wasn't that the main character? Yeah, that was her name.
Speaker 2:You're Lindsay Lohan.
Speaker 1:Wow, can't wait for my glow up. Yeah, you've got a real glow up coming.
Speaker 2:You've got maybe a glow down and then a glow back up.
Speaker 1:But I was proud of myself. They were really sweet and very nice.
Speaker 2:Well, good, so we chose the Parable of the Sower and we'll read it here to refresh everybody's memory. But I think one of the reasons we liked it is it kind of goes through some of the common phases on why we don't go back to church or like why we have a hard time like getting started again. Um, and the other piece of it that I think is interesting is, um and katie, you brought this up, uh, when we were kind of discussing beforehand. But when you read the parable, oftentimes we look at it from the perspective that Jesus is the one sowing the seed, but oftentimes it's our job to sow the seeds as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think, just depending on like what, like it's cool that there's two messages you can take away and they're both very pertinent, and viewing it as the seed, as you being the seed it's important to note.
Speaker 1:Like that, the message is our job is to get busy growing and finding the right soil but, on the flip side, like as the farmer, you need to get busy sowing the seed and like spreading the message, so like there's a two-fold message here that I think is both very important to to know when you are kind of stepping back into this world yeah, so let's read it.
Speaker 2:Um, so it is mark four, so the first part is going to be three through nine and then the second part is going to be, um, mark 13 through I can find the end uh, I believe 20. So go Listen. A sower went out to sow and as he sowed, some seeds fell along the path and the birds came and devoured it. Other seed fell on the rocky ground where it has not much soil, and immediately it sprang up, since it had no depth of soil, and when the sun rose it was scorched and since it had no root, it withered away. Other seeds fell among thorns and the thorns grew up and choked it and it yielded no grain. Other seeds fell onto good soil and brought forth grain, growing up and increasing and yielding thirtyfold and sixtyfold and a hundredfold. And he said he who has ears to hear, let him hear. And so there's a little bit we're skipping, but essentially, jesus then kind of goes back to the disciples and said do you actually understand what I'm saying?
Speaker 1:And then he proceeds to explain to them.
Speaker 2:Do you not understand this parable? How then will you understand all the parables? The sower sows the word, and these are the ones along the path where the word is sown. When they hear, satan immediately comes and takes away the word which is sown in them. And these, in like manner, are the ones sown upon rocky ground who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with joy and they have no root in themselves but endure it for a while. Then, when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately they fall away. And others are the ones sown among the thorns. They are those who hear the word, but the cares of the world and the delight in riches and the desire for other things enter in and choke the word and it proves unfruitful. But those that were sown upon good soil are the ones who hear the word and accept it and bear fruit. Thirtyfold and sixtyfold and a hundredfold. Katie's looking at her phone. She didn't even want to listen.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm trying to follow along, but I was looking at the wrong gospel.
Speaker 2:Oh well, that's okay. Was your gospel a good one?
Speaker 1:We haven't gotten that far yet, oh, okay.
Speaker 2:Well, that's nice, um, but no, so I I think I just would love that gospel, because I like jesus explaining it to the disciples and I like that we needed, like they needed, someone to re-explain it to them essentially.
Speaker 1:And jesus was like come on, guys, like you have to pay attention.
Speaker 2:Let me paraphrase what I just said yeah, but I think we just want to go. So we want, we want to go seed by seed and and talk about, like, what they represent and what they could mean for both you as the sower and you as the seed itself well, and I think we all like, there's not clearly the good.
Speaker 1:Like you know, seed on the good soil is the right answer, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, yeah, of course.
Speaker 1:That's the goal, but I do feel like we have to get through those barricades, those obstacles, in order to really understand, like the fruit of actually growing on good soil.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and we've all been in one of those situations.
Speaker 1:Yes, and you won't know like you just won't know what good soil is until you've gone on the rocky soil, until you've gone on the thorny soil until you didn't even get to the soil and you're on the path. So I it's just really important, I think, for us to talk about all of them and like, yeah, how that applies to you and where to go from there so the first, first one which is talked about is the seed that actually is sown and falls on the path.
Speaker 1:So it wasn't even sown, like it just fell off the path.
Speaker 2:It just fell off the path or no, it fell onto the path.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think in the Gospels it talks about it being kind of picked up immediately by the birds and then that's likened to, how, you know, Satan immediately comes in and kind of blocks the word from being like truly heard. And I think when we were talking about that we kind of view that, as you know, people who their hearts truly are just not open to it in the moment.
Speaker 2:You know and like we've all been in those places where, when you're really upset about something, um and somebody's like well, you know, we're praying for you, or like you know and god will be with and it's like okay yes, it's a very irritable answer. I totally understand yeah, like sometimes the words we're praying for you, it's like thank you just like empty words sometimes. Yeah like you're saying that for you, not for me yes, yes but it's.
Speaker 2:It's also I mean, let's be candid it's also people who are actively not interested in hearing about christianity correct or about the word of god right yeah, I feel like I mean these from personal experience, like I have like closed off and just like very, you know, closed off.
Speaker 1:I guess. Like when I imagine myself being like fallen on the path, like I just don't want to hear any of it.
Speaker 1:Like don't even try to like break through my heart right now, like I'm not ready, and then, in a sense too, I view this as like the people who jump ship, you know like the moment anybody presents any good news good like any kind of hope to you, can sometimes be like a scary thing for somebody who's spent most of their life like traumatized or scared um almost like uh, you're not worthy of hearing.
Speaker 1:Yeah like no, like this can't be true for me, because I'm whatever fill in the blank, I'm not good enough, I have too many sins, like I don't qualify, and so like they kind of jump ship. Like that's kind of how I view some. Some of the situations here is like oh, here's this good news, like here's this great soil you can grow in, and the seeds like nah, that's not for me what would you say is like a tactic to if you have somebody who's that closed off.
Speaker 2:What did you say, like if we are the sower and you're trying to reach out to somebody who you feel like you want to start to help bring them back to church or bring them back into the faith? What would you say is like a good response to somebody who you feel like this is just hitting right on the path.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I, because this is something that I need somebody to tell me time and time again, because I don't truly, I don't know how to apply this, but this is something you've told me is that love builds a bridge to truth.
Speaker 2:I have told you that, yes, there's no way. I have said that that's way too, wow.
Speaker 1:Well then, I'm giving you too much credit. But somebody told me that Maybe I did that's awesome. There's so much truth there because, okay, you're not ready. If this person is not ready to receive the truth that you are speaking, then just love them. There's so much truth there that is universally accepted.
Speaker 2:No matter where you come from.
Speaker 1:Loveless is an open door and love is an open door. That's a good harmony, nice what is that?
Speaker 2:is that frozen?
Speaker 1:yes, but yeah, just keep loving on them and like that requires so much patience and I like it frustrates me sometimes because I'm like I just like want to shake people and be like there's an easier way to live and not maybe not an easier way, but there's just a better way to live, like a happier, more joyful way, and I like I want to share that with you, but there's nothing that I can do, like ultimately, our job is just to sow the seed and it's the Holy. Spirit's job to prepare the soil.
Speaker 2:No, that's. That's a great point.
Speaker 1:It's the Holy.
Speaker 2:Spirit's job to prepare the soil. No, that's a great point and I think and on the other side, if you are the person who you feel like, listen, I'm just not interested, I just don't want to do it. My challenge is there's no harm in taking that first step. The worst thing you'll do is turn around and walk back the other way.
Speaker 1:Well, that's another thing, like keep taking the steps, whether they're steps backwards or steps to the side or steps forward. Keep on taking the steps the moment that you just decide to like sit Stop walking. Yeah, like stop trying.
Speaker 2:That's like when it gets tricky side to like stop walking, yeah, like stop trying. That's like when it gets tricky, yeah, and and again, I just I love what you said about you know, if you are the sower, like listen, just love them and keep trying because ultimately I have no, no patience truly, the world will fail. The world will just fail you. You know, like that seed that's sown on the path that gets eaten by a bird, you know that's it's done kind of sex, you know well I guess that.
Speaker 2:I wonder if, biologically speaking, that's not true, because like bird poop is like a big reason that seeds are dispersed. But, like you know, take it scripturally, like the. If you know, ultimately the world will fail you and unless you are rooted in something bigger than the world, you know you're just going to be disappointed at the end of the day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I agree with that. So just be there, yeah, be there, rock, don't give up.
Speaker 2:Speaking of rocks Katie great segue.
Speaker 1:I did that on purpose.
Speaker 2:So the seeds that fall on the rocky ground.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And these are the seeds that just don't take root. And these are the seeds that just don't take root. Yeah, um, and these are, um, lovingly, what a lot of people refer to as fair weather christians, maybe, or cne christians, or um, I I one time I was talking with a professor about this and I called them census christians. Um, because, like, if you made them fill out a census, they would say they're Christian, but you're not going to see them at church.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so what do you feel like like? When do you feel like you are, you're being a census Christian? When do you feel like you're kind of, you're just not taking root?
Speaker 1:Oh gosh, I don't know. I feel like this is like very variable, to like different cultures too, oh, interesting you know, like because I am thinking, truly thinking about it I don't think we'll ever, um, we'll ever not go to mass like that's just something we grew up doing yeah, I can't imagine, so like I don't think that that for me personally, like I'm not gonna say, oh, it's the day that I stopped going to sunday mass, because I think we will always just go to sunday mass, but I think but that doesn't mean we can't still.
Speaker 2:I know, that's what I'm saying that's what I'm saying like.
Speaker 1:So for me, what that actually means is, like I think, just like, stop desiring to like spend that quality time with god, which I feel like I'm just now coming out of a season like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and like just not making like that time to spend quality time like praying with God, like utilizing the sacraments and truly just like desiring him.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like that. That's where I feel like I was just like a season I was just in and, like I'm, excited to not be there anymore. But this can also mean, like I, this can also mean maybe you just don't like go to sunday mass like ever and like that's something that, like you, can start doing or I don't know. I feel like this means something different for everybody, like what does this mean for you?
Speaker 2:for me in particular, yeah, um, no, I mean I I think that's a a good way to put. I would say, for me it's, and in a weird way, I don't feel like I speak up enough about my faith, and I think that's as I've gotten older and I try to be a little more understanding of people's feelings, which I think is important. Like I shouldn't interrupt a conversation of like four people that are talking just to introduce myself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, who would do that? Yeah, who would ever do that? No, just kidding.
Speaker 2:No, just kidding, but like I try to go out of my way to not offend and to be polite, which I think is a good, like base level.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But I think I use that as a defense mechanism to not be willing to be a little controversial with you know how I'm speaking, especially when, like I mean, we're talking about the importance of community and it's great to be in a community of like-minded people, but ultimately, as Christians, we're also called to share the gospel to people who are not like-minded. Um, and so I think, just being a little more, um, I don't even forward, I don't know what the word is but just not being afraid to state the truth as I know it.
Speaker 1:You know, I think we're both like that. That's definitely something where we're both just like people pleasers, let's not like dive into an argument or a debate right now. Well you like debating, but there's a difference.
Speaker 2:But I like to debate with people when I know that Hang on, let. Okay, I was worried that our whole it looked like our power just went out Like. I like debating people when I know that we're both coming from like a good faith and I'm not like I want to have that relationship like early on.
Speaker 2:But the other thing I would say and to your point, like you know, for people who maybe aren't going to church but would consider themselves Christian, like a question that again, like even going back to, like I feel even a little uncomfortable asking it, but like why not ask it? Like why, why do you call yourself Christian but you don't want to go to a religious service or you don't want to actually believe those things? And I think that a lot of true believers would agree with me in saying this, like then you know, if you don't want to do any of those things, that's totally fine. Then just don't refer to yourself as a Christian.
Speaker 1:You know Sounds very controversial of you to say. I know it is.
Speaker 2:But like that's, that's, that's the truth.
Speaker 2:Like, yeah, if you, there was this great stat, um, especially as, like, I think we're, uh, coming out of the year of the, was it a year of the eucharist or the eucharistic revival?
Speaker 2:Um was the number was like 50 of catholics or something like that don't believe in the true presence of the eucharist. And for me it's like, if you don't believe that, then just don't be catholic. Yeah, you know, like, like, or do some more research or look into it, because ultimately you're you're kind of being that fair weather where you're just going along with emotions and the minute that there's going to be some sort of trial or tribulation, you're gonna, you know, you're just gonna blow away in the wind, you're not going to be actually taking root. And I think that's kind of where we're getting at. In these moments in life, when you feel like you're not taking root, you have to find something to kind of hold on to, because stuff's going to happen. Something's going to challenge you in your faith or challenge you in your beliefs, whatever they are, or challenge you in your beliefs, yeah, whatever they are.
Speaker 1:Fun fact which we did a whole podcast on this. But our words for the year is take root.
Speaker 2:Wow, wow.
Speaker 1:Full circle moment, and it's a good point, though, because when you said, like when life gets hard, you are going to cling to something, so, like, a genuine question is what are you clinging to?
Speaker 2:Ooh, that's good.
Speaker 1:And is it strong enough to hold you together?
Speaker 1:And I think like um great point it is, and I think you know you asked me earlier, like why do people turn to faith during times like this? Is because they're clinging like, they're looking for something to cling to, because they either a realized what they were clinging to before was not strong enough or they never had one to begin with. And I think you will realize very quickly that, whatever it is, if it's not your faith, it's going to fall apart, and that's like a really hard truth to accept until you are in the midst of it falling apart, it's a great point.
Speaker 1:And that's not to scare you, because there's so much beauty in the church and there's so much to hold on to that this church has to offer, and I think, like there are so many churches out there you can go to.
Speaker 1:However, the Catholic church offers like this, like physical presence of Jesus Christ to hold on to, and I feel like that is why there's such an emphasis in the Catholic Church to go to Mass, like it's not just to hear some frou-frou words in the homily or to perform some ritualistic thing that people have been doing, just because it's because there's so much true beauty and essence to what the Mass has to offer and we believe that we need that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:To literally keep on going.
Speaker 2:Well, and I'll even take it a step further, like now we're just speaking reference and just to mass. But mass is not for us Like. Mass is our offering to God, it's our sacrifice to God. It's nice that we get to receive the Eucharist out of it and we get to, you know, receive some spiritual nourishment and it's, you know, a good way to get to meet people and everything. But ultimately, mass is our way of worship and loving God. You go to Mass because you love God, not because you need to fill your cup?
Speaker 1:Yeah, not because you need to feel better. You need to fill your cup, yeah, not because you need to feel better.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes you know there's, and what's amazing is the Catholic Church and most churches outside of their Sunday service provide all sorts of resources to be filled spiritually that way, you know Bible studies and prayer groups and you know Friday fish fries, you know whatever it is. There's all these sorts, but like mass is for God, service is meant to be your offering to God.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, and two things just to pivot off of that. I think that's why a lot of people that are turning back to the faith that maybe haven't in a while but are trying are turned off is because they view mass as something for themselves, and so they go to mass thinking, well, what priest is going to have the best homily?
Speaker 2:what am I going to get? What?
Speaker 1:vibe do I get out of coming? Too much incense there yeah, how much incense are they using?
Speaker 2:what are the like not enough incense is it a cathedral?
Speaker 1:is it like a boxy church, like so many things that like are important to me, and the truth is you're not going to find a church that checks off all those things Like there's going to be some politics, there's going to be something that you don't love, but just find a church, find a home.
Speaker 2:The Catholic faith. There's going to be some things you don't like. There's going to be some things you don't like.
Speaker 1:There's gonna be some politics you don't like that's with everything like you're not going to find the perfect church. And there's the song that we were listening to this morning. What is it that like home is where, like I'm not home, but I want to be home oh, yeah, yeah I want to go home, but I'm already home that that is the church, so it like doesn't matter. If you go to church in southeast asia and like you don't understand what's going on, this is the same church, like it's the same mass.
Speaker 1:so that's the first point I want to make is like it's, it doesn't have to be that hard finding a church. And the second point is I want to ask you because I feel like if I were listening to us saying all these things, I'd be a little bit intimidated and I'd honestly feel a little bit guilty, like oh shoot.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like I don't get what they're saying and I don't feel that same conviction. So in the parable it says the seed can't take root in the rocks, or something along those lines right. So like what does it mean for them to actually take root? And like how do you practically do that? Well from the beginning not from like yeah you know somebody who's been going and then just fell away, but like really just don't know we've talked about this before.
Speaker 2:um, and I understand the on the, on the noseness of a cath talking about Catholic guilt, but guilt is a good not a good thing but like a little bit of guilt is a good motivator. You know, like I was talking about this with my mom and we were just talking in general about like sometimes you don't want to go see your family or sometimes you don't want to go see your family, or sometimes you don't want to go to your kid's baseball game.
Speaker 1:Sometimes you don't want to do a photo shoot with your wife.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sometimes you don't want to do a photo shoot with your wife. Sometimes you don't want to go to mass right and you're like I would feel bad if I didn't do that.
Speaker 1:That's a good feeling, you know, like that generally means that's a good motivator to do something, maybe just that shouldn't be your only motivation.
Speaker 2:But yeah, if you feel a little called out by the podcast or feel a little guilty, then that's a good chance to examine what you're doing and see what you want to do. And if the answer that you come to is, well, then I don't really want to go to church, then okay, then don't feel guilty about it anymore, because you've decided that you don't want to go to church, but it's the same thing with working out.
Speaker 2:Right, you may not want to work out, but that feeling of like, well, I'm going to feel a little guilty. You know, and I think we've talked about it before, but I heard on a podcast one time and I really like this, this idea Are you motivated or are you disciplined? And I think that it was about working out. And the guy was saying like you know, when you're motivated, it's great because it's you want to do it, but being disciplined is what actually gets you strong.
Speaker 2:You know, and I think it's the same thing with our faith, but being disciplined is what actually gets you strong you know and I think it's the same thing with our faith Like you're going to go through times where you are motivated to go to church right and you are motivated to learn more about your faith, and there's going to be a lot, a lot, probably way more frequently, times where you are not, and that's where you have to be disciplined to go to mass, to go to church, to pray every night. You know that's where you have to be disciplined to go to mass, to go to church, to pray every night, and we by no means do all of those things all the time, just as we should, for sure.
Speaker 1:And you know what helps is having people to keep you accountable. Having a community, yeah, People to keep you accountable.
Speaker 2:Proverbs 27, 17, iron sharpens iron. Yes, that was potentially going to be the verse, and then we were like no, we've got a better one um. Did I answer your question?
Speaker 1:yeah, no, no. I I just think that, like people will hear that and not know what that means, and I I don't want people to be swayed away by, like the lofty words oh, but I didn't, I didn't actually answer your question what it means to take root. I think I realize we're actually going to get there with the, with the good, the good soil um, okay, we will talk about that um quickly thorns, um.
Speaker 2:So the seed that falls into the thorns, um. I interpret this sometimes especially with my own faith. Life, um. This is where my own convictions of the world get into my faith, like and and kind of where. To me, this is where a little bit, where faith and um worldliness kind of clash and where you can.
Speaker 2:That's where you can kind of get choked up when you know whether it's the you know the actual beliefs of like I don't agree with the church teachings. Or whether it's the you know the actual beliefs of like I don't agree with the church teachings. Or if it's something as simple as like like we've been I told you this the other day we've been really honing in on our finances for the mortgage, for the new house and everything, and I just told you the other day I was like I'm worrying too much about money, like I'm thinking about it. All I'm thinking about is how much money we're spending. How can we get more money? Like, and it's.
Speaker 2:It's taking up way too much of my brain power yeah and way too much of my focus and I think that oftentimes we view the thorns as like I'm gonna get perverted by lust and greed, but it's it's. It doesn't work quite like you know. Um, if anybody's seen like the princess and the frog, the guy who the like evil villain in that, who's like always slinking in back alleys and like is such a sleazy guy, but it oftentimes is just the that it's just the actual worldly things that get in the way of like oh, oh well, I'm tired or I'm lazy or whatever it is. You know, I'm thinking about money, or I'm worried about my status, I'm worried about how this makes me look. That is way more I think the thorns than anything else.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I don't think we even realize when it's happening to us, until it's like happening.
Speaker 1:It's until you start gasping for air yes, yeah, and I think I had a moment too, like it's subtle, like the thorns are subtle, like they don't. You don't feel them until they're pressing into you because you are dependent on them so much. Yeah, and so I I feel like I really, just the other day, like just being around, like all these women that I hadn't seen in a while, and it's like such a great crew of girls, um, made me realize like, oh my gosh, like I have been around too many people that make me feel like I need to compare the things that I have the um, like just little things, like the kind of car I drive and the kind of house we're buying and this, that I wear, this, like this kind of makeup that I use, like just so many little things that like I didn't realize I was doing.
Speaker 1:And then, for some reason, being around like a totally different kind of community and just listening to the way that they like talked and like really boosted each other up in such non-materialistic ways, I was like in the back of my mind, I was like, well, I'm like feeling the urge to compare, but there's nothing here to compare to yeah and I was like, have I been doing this, like not even realizing it this whole time?
Speaker 2:like it come becomes to the point that it's like such a natural thought process to be clear, you're the one comparing yes Like it's not yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, in my own it's all internal.
Speaker 1:Correct.
Speaker 2:And that's on all of us.
Speaker 1:Well, and it's. Yes, I'm around people that do it, but I'm the one that's allowing myself to feel less than you know, and I don't even think that I realized I was doing it until I was around a group of people who were just not doing that or not speaking those kind of words that I was like, wait a minute, like I feel this urge to feel this type of way.
Speaker 2:And I, there's no reason?
Speaker 1:There's literally no reason, yeah, and so I don't know. I feel like the thorns are tricky because they, like you, don't notice they're there. Until they're like, until they're, until they suffocate until you're literally bleeding because they're poking you so much.
Speaker 2:I like that the good soil the good soil so to answer your question what does it look like to take root and to be in good soil? I I think this is one of the things where there is not a practical explanation. It's not. It's something you have to look internally on and decide. I'm going to, I'm going to make this a priority. I'm going to decide to actually dive into my faith and, ultimately, this whole podcast is about how do I get started? The way you get started is to decide that you want it.
Speaker 1:Yes, you know. Yeah, it's half the battle.
Speaker 2:Like Allie said in her. You know, when we had her on the podcast she said it wasn't a lack of time, it was just a lack of desire.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think that until you decide to want it and really decide to want it and really decide to want it like how many times, katie, have I wanted you know to go work out and eat better?
Speaker 2:you know, but never, yeah well I guess that's true, but until you actually decide you're going to go to the gym and then you do it, or until you decide I am going to read a book at night or I am going to stop watching YouTube, or whatever it is. Until you actually make that decision and say this is what I want. Um, you know, it's just not going to work. You know, and you're never going to take root. Yeah, you know, it's just that simple. If you don't want it, you're not going to take root. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's my answer.
Speaker 1:No way.
Speaker 2:And that's my answer for the good soil too, being, I think, literally being on good soil ultimately, yes, it's like being surrounded by the right people and all these really important things. Being on good soil means you are deciding to follow like you are desiring and wanting god, and I think the second piece to that is number one.
Speaker 1:You have to desire it right like nothing's gonna go from there if you don't actually want this to happen for yourself. And then the second piece to that that's also really important is to trust the process oh yes, trust. Trust what the bible says, trust what the church is teaching. It's not going to happen right away, like yesterday. We were just joking about the amount of novenas we've prayed to, like sell our house. And it's like, come on, we've prayed too like why are we not selling this for a million dollars?
Speaker 1:well, our faith is not a magic trick yeah it takes a lot of patience and that's not how this works, unfortunately. Trust the process. Be patient with waiting for your seed to bloom. It's going to take time, Like since when do flowers bloom overnight?
Speaker 2:2,000 years people have been believing this stuff. There's something here it survived genocides, and it was such—.
Speaker 1:And people were willing to die for this. To die for it and it was a radical radical religion.
Speaker 2:You know, Christianity has been co-opted, I think, for good things and for better and worse by kind of the conservative movement, but Christianity at its core is a radical religion.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think that that's oftentimes missed or not really thought upon. You know, Jesus was teaching a gospel that the poor and the meek are the most important people in the world.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, and it's a philosophy, and it's a religion, and it's a truth that has survived thousands of years.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, and kind of on par with what's going on in the church right now, we're in limbo trying to find a new pope, the very first pope.
Speaker 2:Where is he?
Speaker 1:The very first pope, st Peter. When Jesus handed him the keys to the kingdom, he immediately started essentially performing the mass right, like celebrating the mass with the people, and his prime target were, at the time, like slaves, like people that were not considered people, and that was how this movement grew so rampantly. Like these people were suddenly told no, you have dignity, like you belong here, like God created you and naturally you know. Like they want to be told that they have purpose in this life.
Speaker 1:And so that's why this movement grew so quickly, so abundantly, and now On good soil. Yeah, yeah, because they wanted it. They wanted it and they saw like gosh it and they saw like gosh, like they saw the fruit in it and they desired that for their lives. Like who wouldn't want that? But now we're just in a culture, unfortunately, and in a place in life where people just feel like they are what's the word? Like they deserve it, like they, they got here, on their own.
Speaker 1:So why do I need a god to tell me I have dignity? So it's different, right, like the movement isn't going to grow in the same way and you have to find that desire in a different way, because we're not suffering in the same way that they were thousands of years ago, but we're suffering in such a different and a more hidden and kind of a scarier way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I don't know. Know, I think it's all kind of the same amount of suffering and joy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't think it's any more or less.
Speaker 2:I mean that's yeah, I don't know no, I'm probably.
Speaker 1:It's just shaped to shift but no, I agree shape shifted. It's shifted, yeah, it's.
Speaker 2:It's moved from you know less physical suffering and a lot of emotional yeah mental suffering but yeah.
Speaker 1:But back to my point. Like just trust the process. Like you don't know what's growing beneath the good soil, like you don't? You just have to trust something is growing there.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And then eventually you will see, you'll see it bloom.
Speaker 2:Katie, I've got a marriage meeting for you.
Speaker 1:I'm ready for it.
Speaker 2:You have probably seen this 100 men versus one gorilla. Who do you think wins? The gorilla you really think the gorilla wins? Yeah I think the people win is there.
Speaker 1:Do you not know the answer?
Speaker 2:well, no, no, this is have you what? Do you think we put a hundred guys out there and somebody filmed it?
Speaker 1:They're like let's see.
Speaker 2:You said, you've probably seen this, so now I'm assuming oh, it's been like all anybody's been talking about for the last week or two on the lines what it was a tweet from like two weeks ago. I'm sorry, it was an ex on the Everything app.
Speaker 1:You think I have that app.
Speaker 2:I know you don't, but I mean you have TikTok or Instagram Reels or whatever. I just figured. Maybe it made your way, but it was pretty big.
Speaker 1:No, it hasn't made my way.
Speaker 2:It's been a big debate on 100 men versus one gorilla. Who wins? I think 100 men is a lot of people for a gorilla to have to take.
Speaker 1:Maybe I don't know. I just have a lot of faith in the gorilla I mean they are.
Speaker 2:I did hear I was watching a video about it. Apparently they've got like denser bones than us and their skin is really thick it's just horrifying if we can't, if the men can't get like tools like you know, like if they can get a rock out there or like a big stick if they have yeah, if they have nothing to defend themselves, gorilla. I think you gotta the first 10 to 15 guys gotta be really I think if they get 50 of them and just jump on him and, like you know, what if the gorilla just starts spinning, just like spinning, with his fists out?
Speaker 2:Okay, so if we ever get an answer to this question, one of us will be right, one of us will be wrong.
Speaker 1:That was the marriage meeting. That was the marriage meeting. Do you think he sows seeds? The gorilla do you think it's actually a plot twist? That the, the gorilla is the sower of seeds the gorilla, just like, takes in all these men, and it's like, and it's like, what's that movie? The monkey movie.
Speaker 2:Tarzan.
Speaker 1:No, the monkey movie, the one where Caesar Caesar. Planet of the Apes, the gorilla becomes Caesar and the 100 men all become like the monkeys.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:What if it just becomes like a cult?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I didn't think that would happen. But I mean, then the gorilla still wins. That's what I think the gorilla would win in each possible case scenario. That's a really smart gorilla. Yep, that's Caesar thanks for joining us guys yes, thank you for tuning in.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening and we'll be back at some point this month yeah, in two weeks couple weeks, but let's keep growing together in the meantime. Bye y'all, bye, thank you.