The Vine with Joe & Katie Devine
As branches of the same divine Vine, we embrace the power of community and the guidance of faith, aiming to inspire and uplift our listeners as we collectively journey toward greater understanding and connection. Welcome to a space where vulnerability meets wisdom and where, together, we discover the beauty of being intertwined in the vine of life.
The Vine with Joe & Katie Devine
40 Days Later: The Lent We Meant to Have
When our Lenten journey doesn't go as planned, where do we find ourselves in the Easter season? Katie and Joe dive deep into their personal experiences during the past 40 days, sharing both triumphs and struggles with refreshing honesty.
The conversation begins with reflections on Easter celebrations and the beauty of Catholic traditions during Holy Week. We explore how these sacred rituals connect us physically to Christ's journey, from Palm Sunday through the resurrection. But what happens when our spiritual aspirations collide with the realities of busy lives, work travel, and house-hunting stress?
Katie reveals a powerful moment with her spiritual director who gently suggested that feelings of disconnection might actually be God's way of calling her back. This revelation sparked a deeper understanding about the nature of our relationship with God – not based on perfect performance but on surrender and openness to divine invitation.
Joe shares a profound meditation on the two thieves crucified alongside Jesus, highlighting the stark difference between demanding salvation on our terms versus surrendering to God's will. "One criminal commanded Jesus: 'Save us!' while the other simply asked to be remembered," Joe notes, challenging us to examine which approach characterizes our own spiritual lives.
The episode concludes with heartfelt reflections on Pope Francis' legacy and his declaration of the Jubilee Year of Hope – a fitting theme as we navigate the disappointments of imperfect Lenten practices while embracing the joy of Easter.
Whether you've maintained perfect spiritual disciplines or struggled to keep your Lenten commitments, this conversation offers a grace-filled perspective that will resonate with anyone seeking authentic relationship with God beyond religious performance. Join us as we discover how true transformation often happens not in our successes, but in our surrender.
An exclusive from Dery Media Podcasts. Explore diverse perspectives and enrich your knowledge at derymedia.com. Telling stories that matter, sparking meaningful discussions.
Hello, Happy Easter. Happy Easter everyone. I'm Katie.
Speaker 2:And I'm Joe.
Speaker 1:And this is the Vine. This is the Vine. Welcome back.
Speaker 2:And you can say Happy Easter as Father Dennis says every year in his Easter homily. That Easter is Eight days, it's an octave Eighty days, it's not 80 days.
Speaker 1:It is eight days, the octave of Easter, so Happy Easter. Happy Easter everyone.
Speaker 2:We were listening to this on a Wednesday?
Speaker 1:Whoa, what's going on here?
Speaker 2:We were lazy.
Speaker 1:No, we were not lazy. We were very intentional with our time and just wanted to be present and we did not pre-record. We just don't do that anymore.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we don't do that anymore.
Speaker 1:That's okay, this is life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so happy Easter everyone. And Father Dennis also always reminds us that you're not supposed to say Merry Christmas until it's actually Christmas.
Speaker 1:Wow that was just like a holiday, like you just dipped your foot into another holiday, like we're in Easter. Yeah, that's true, I'm sorry, hold your horses, bunnies and all the lovely things about Easter and Christ. How about Jesus?
Speaker 2:And Jesus. How about that?
Speaker 1:one, that one's pretty important.
Speaker 2:I do think it's funny, like Easter a a holiday, you know, I mean literally revolving around the resurrection of christ, and I'm sure people have joked about this before, but they're like how about bunnies?
Speaker 1:yeah, I'm sure there's a reason, I just don't know the answer yeah, where that came.
Speaker 2:That'd be a fun like chat.
Speaker 1:Gpt question yeah, if only we prepared this beforehand, then we could have the answer to that no, we're, I mean, we are very prepared.
Speaker 2:Um, katie, what is your peak and pit?
Speaker 1:great question.
Speaker 2:Thank you for asking go ahead, take that cough that you need to.
Speaker 1:We always make fun of um priests when they're doing their homilies, when they like have to cough and they just like, can't or like, or they just ignore the fact that they need to cough and they just like can't or like. Or they just ignore the fact that they need to cough and they sound like darth vader, or they'll do it during like the.
Speaker 2:You know I get it during, like the eucharistic liturgy, like you know, that's an important time. But, like I'm not gonna lie, you know it's more distracting than you like taking a minute to cough or like get a drink of water. It's way more distracting for you to like. You said sound like doubt.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sound like darth vader's funny though it's like the worst feeling, I just sympathize for them.
Speaker 2:I mean, they got some important stuff going on.
Speaker 1:Yes, Okay, back to Peek and Pit. Obviously, Easter was a big peak.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Easter was great.
Speaker 1:It was so I don't know. There's just something about being Catholic in the Easter season and there's just so much beauty.
Speaker 2:What about Christian?
Speaker 1:Well, okay, obviously being Christian but I'm not going to lie like being Catholic and being able to experience Holy Week, the way that we do, is so beautiful and like I never appreciated it before, but just being grown up and knowing a little bit more about our faith, and like walking that walk with God, and like being able to physically experience each pivotal point of, like, the Easter faith, the Easter season Gosh, it's so beautiful, like the way that, like the church just decks out in beauty and it's just like the most vibrant time to be present in the church.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's really cool to be able to walk through Christ's journey, even like from palm sunday, you know, like going from palm sunday to holy thursday to good friday yeah, that whole week is just so exciting and I'm a big like anticipatory katie's very excited about it anytime, like I'm excited about, like the, the month of november leading up to my birthday. It's a big, it's a good time um, would you like to say that sentence again?
Speaker 1:the.
Speaker 2:Katie said the month of November leading up to her birthday. For anyone interested, katie's birthday is in October. You know we had like 20 episodes of no technical difficulties and I think two out of the last. What four episodes we've had technical difficulties in the middle of recording.
Speaker 1:I wonder, what that means.
Speaker 2:I guess it's my fault.
Speaker 1:Anyways, I always forget.
Speaker 2:That your birthday's in October.
Speaker 1:I don't forget that, for sure. I forget the month before my birthday because I'm so focused on my birthday. Who cares about?
Speaker 2:September man. I mean for real yeah my mom's birthday isn't in September, don't worry about it.
Speaker 1:Oh goodness, here we go.
Speaker 2:Here we go, here we go. Anyways, you love anticipation.
Speaker 1:I do love anticipation. I do love anticipation like get me excited for something. The anticipation of it is like way more fun than the actual. Well, obviously, easter is pretty awesome, but just way more fun for me getting ready and preparing for something. Um so yeah, that was my peak. We went home, we saw our families, um what was your pit and um, well, I was, I was getting there someone's, someone's rushing me this is my life. Joe just like rushes me because he's in a constant state of cortisol rush like always just stressed about nothing.
Speaker 1:I love rushing um, pit, um, you were just I. I know you were only gone for three days last week, which is like pretty average, yeah, but it just felt like a really long time and I was just really like I had this whole day planned on wednesday, which is when I'm off, and you weren't there and I was like, oh, it'll be fine, like I've got all these things to do, and just just I just there's a lot, a lot of lulls in the in-betweens and I was just feeling really sad and abandoned.
Speaker 2:You didn't tell me this.
Speaker 1:Well, I try not to complain because there's not like anything you could do about it.
Speaker 2:I know I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:No, it's okay. I mean continue to provide for our family please, and I will.
Speaker 2:This is the sacrifice I have to make, deal, okay, what about you? Rush, rush please? Um, no, so I'll say I'll start with my pit, because I would say that, um, my pit has been traveling quite a bit. Katie, that was a good water drink you don't have to point out every time I drink water and um, but no, I would say my travel has been a lot lately and I think that's probably part of your pit too.
Speaker 2:It's like it's just been busy. Lots of trade shows and stuff like that that I've been going to and I would say, like I had to. Something came up and I like had to go to Virginia. So I was gone Tuesday through Thursday and then Thursday night flew to DC, had like two or three meetings like early in the morning and then flew back. I flew back at like 1230 in the afternoon. Like I was literally in DC for all of I don't know 18 hours and six of it I was sleeping or whatever.
Speaker 2:Um, so I would say that that has definitely been a pit for me too, like it's just, it's nice when you're home and you get to be kind of steady and relaxed. So I'd say that was my pit. My peak would be going back to just like the Easter season, specifically I would say Holy Thursday last week. I thought was really neat because we were both late to mass, because we had been coming from something for work and like I was supposed to get my feet washed at church.
Speaker 1:And that didn't happen.
Speaker 2:I was. I was really excited, I felt honored that I was asked and I was like I can't wait to get up there. And then I had to call them and be like I've got a four hour drive.
Speaker 1:This was like the only time. Yeah, you were in traffic and this was the only time I. So I normally will work till at the latest six. I did not get off until seven o'clock.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I was like, of course, the day that I really want to go to mass at seven o'clock.
Speaker 2:And at RARLY the Rosary, Holy Thursday it is. I mean, literally it is like exploding at the gills with people, so it's like impossible to park and everything. So we got there late and we walk in and we were sitting in the narthex because there weren't any seats and and like it was. This is gonna sound like it's a bad thing, but it's not like it was really hard to pay attention because there was like a lot of going on in the narthex, um, but when we walked into communion it felt completely different like heaven.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just because I imagine it to be like we had been kind of removed from like what was going on a mass, like we couldn't even see into the church, um. But then when we walked in to you know, receive the eucharist, like there's incense everywhere, they're singing you know this beautiful hymn I don't even remember what it was and like everyone's being very reverent and like that was just really cool. To like to be honest for me, like I was distracted during mass, like I wasn't really present, and then just to walk in it was like like somebody shook me and was like, hey, it's important what you're doing, right you know like going to church.
Speaker 2:Being at holy thursday mass is important yeah, yeah, that was a beautiful mess yeah so, and it's always fun to process out into like the lower church like I remember it so cool are they the lake we'd process into saint andrews hall and they'd have like all the fake trees set up to like kind of make it look like we're putting jesus in the garden oh, I don't remember that you don't remember that?
Speaker 2:oh, man that was like, especially when I was growing up, because we had given up tv. I was I could not wait for Holy Thursday Mass to end because that was kind of like the signification that like Lent's over and I was like I can't wait to watch.
Speaker 1:TV. It's probably like.
Speaker 2:Pokemon is on and I can't wait to watch it. So, uh, katie, how was your Lent?
Speaker 1:yeah, my Lent was good. This is what. By the the way, this is just a rehash of the last 40 days. Yeah, we did an episode on what we were hoping that these 40 days would look like, and now we are rehashing it and seeing how successful we were and how maybe not so successful we were.
Speaker 2:Very true. So what was your goal with Lent or what was your plan? So what was your goal with Lent or what was your plan?
Speaker 1:You know, I really tried to give myself some grace this Lent, because Lent last year was really hard. I think I just was in the most beautiful way, like really aligning with Jesus's suffering and like the waiting season of the desert, quite literally, and it was beautiful but it was really hard. So this season has just been a big twist, like it's been truly so joyful and I think Lent is supposed to be both, you know, and I think it's a gift that I was able to see how joyful this season could be and also know how hard it can also be and how those two can exist in the same realm. And because it was really joyful, I was giving myself a lot of grace, because I can be kind of what's the word Not like? Maybe a masochist, is that the right word?
Speaker 2:Yeah, why are you laughing at me? Well, I was because I was going to say and this is this is wrong, and this is not the right word, but the word that came to me. I was like moody, but you don't get moody about it.
Speaker 1:It's not moody, but like mopey, actually I'm in my Catholic emo girl phase. Yeah, but you do sometimes. No, I know I do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, especially in regards like I don't think that's an outward emotion that you have, but it's more so in regards to yourself. You can definitely get In my head.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and in a lot of ways I feel like that helps you know, like enter into prayer, but it can also mess with it too. Like God does not want you to be sorrowful and sad all the time, like he wants you to see, see the blessings in all of it. And so, anyways, back to my point. I wanted to give myself grace this Lent because sometimes I feel like I can be really hard on myself and I'm like so strict about not eating meat on Friday and fasting and doing all these things and doing the right things, thinking it will make me holier, for whatever reason.
Speaker 2:Wait, can I interject on that for you for just a second.
Speaker 1:I mean you're going to anyways.
Speaker 2:Yes, this is true, that is a funny thing that people do. It's like, hey, can I interrupt you?
Speaker 1:And it's like well, you already have.
Speaker 2:I actually don't think that you think it will make you holier, Like I don't think that I think the reason you do that is because you I think it is the way to get closer to God.
Speaker 1:Actually, now that you say that, I think it's like the people pleaser in me.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:It's like this is what he asked me to do, so I'm going to do it and I don't want to let him down. Like the fear of letting him down like really really gets in my way. So something that was on my heart at the start of this Lent was like giving myself grace and knowing that like sometimes my quiet time, like my hour quiet time in the morning, is just as beautiful as like a 15 minute morning prayer that I just glance at my phone while I'm drinking my coffee and rushing to get ready.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And like being okay with that being my morning, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I tried to give myself a lot of grace this Lent with that being my morning, you know. Yeah, so I tried to give myself a lot of grace this Lent with that.
Speaker 2:However, you know, now that I've like talked for a minute, I don't really remember what you're asking me.
Speaker 1:I was asking you what you did for Lent. Oh, what I did for Lent, like like, what was your? What did I give up?
Speaker 2:What did you give up? What were you adding? What was your goal? Okay, gotcha, gotcha.
Speaker 1:I'm like actually just reflecting on all of it, right now, but I don't want to take the whole podcast, so I'll simplify it and we'll get into more of it later. So, with that being said, I never I the. The biggest thing that I gave up was like setting a time limit on my social media and not having screen time before eight o'clock and after eight o'clock like any kind of screen time. But I normally would give up like all social media and like really, really isolate that, which sometimes can be a really good thing. But this, obviously we need to like post stuff for the podcast and whatever that might look like, and it was just not feasible and I felt bad about that. But I was like you know what I'm going to just do time limits and that was the biggest thing I tried to focus on.
Speaker 1:Nice, and that was the biggest thing I tried to focus on nice, so that was what did you add anything? Um? I did a devotional, so, like I read I think I mentioned this earlier I did the. I always forget the title of it walking in wilderness, wilderness yeah, I think it's called walking. No, I don't think that's right, though, because that's always my oh, I'll link it on here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's called something just josephine and that that was really nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's awesome. Got me back into journaling yeah, I know you've been.
Speaker 2:You were you carrying around your books all the time and and you left it at adoration we went to on palm sunday?
Speaker 1:I know, uh, and I was like I need this for holy week yeah so, yeah, long story short, that is what I, but we'll get into more of that reflection later. But what did you do?
Speaker 2:So I was giving up YouTube and that's because I just it's my like I don't have any social media and I would say YouTube is my. I mean mean some people may consider YouTube social media but like I don't have Facebook or Twitter or Instagram and YouTube is like what I reach for when like when I'm bored or when I have like downtime, and I realize like that's just not a good habit for me to have. So that went well. I think I did pretty well with that. Um, you know, tried to even I know this sounds silly and I think I could. I can certainly spend my time even better, but for me it was like I'd rather just watch a show than just kind of endlessly scroll through a billion youtube videos.
Speaker 1:You know, know, yeah.
Speaker 2:I know that seems silly, but like I want to be intentional about the time I'm spending and how I'm spending it.
Speaker 1:Not just like brain rot.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly I was attempt, I attempted to add reading and I mean I had. I did read a good chunk of it, but I was trying to read it every day. It's a book called Dominion and Katie's seen it. It's a little bit bigger than the Bible and it's by this historian named Tom Holland and I really like him and his podcast. But the book is basically about early Christianity and it's about how the early Christians kind of rose to not rose to power, but like how they survived and then how Christianity as a philosophy you know, not just as a religion has affected the world but as a philosophy and a way of thought permeates so much further and deeper. And he's not necessarily even, I would say, like a Christian writer, but it's really interesting to learn.
Speaker 2:Like the history yeah the history of the faith. Like I, just it's a lot of stuff I just don't know and I wanted to learn more about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But I was trying to read it every day and I didn't.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So there's, that.
Speaker 1:It's okay, yeah, and.
Speaker 2:I did not do aional like you, because you're just better than me.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, devotionals just aren't really your thing.
Speaker 2:No, I'm just bad at like structure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, structure, yeah, that's it. It's not devotionals, it's just structure. Yeah, but I mean, since we're talking about things that we did not do good at, I also committed to doing like an extra sacrament in the week.
Speaker 2:Yes, we actually had this discussion.
Speaker 1:we did this together, like let's do this together, and I don't think we succeeded doing that but one time no, that's not true other than like a holy week we I think we went to adoration once or twice. That was because we had to for youth group, so like yes, we did not go out of our way. We did not go out of our way, by no means. Yeah, and in fact it was just now. This is, this is just we did go to confession we did go to confession.
Speaker 1:This is just an excuse, but it was a really, really busy season and I'm I think we are so used to being in like a season of like waiting in stillness, that like, in a way, going to mass like daily mass aside extra from like sunday mass for me was literally something to fill the time.
Speaker 1:I was like joe's gone on wednesdays, I don't have anything to do like. This is not a bad thing to do, this is a good thing. So let's do this. And now that life has been really crazy lately, it's just been the first thing to get bumped. So not only did I not do an extra sacrament in the week, I didn't even do like my normal routine of going to daily mass on Wednesday?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what happens when you are buying and selling a house at the same time, at the same time and just a lot of things going on.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I think that put things into perspective and like could have done better at that for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I agree that put things into perspective and like could have done better at that for sure.
Speaker 1:yeah, no, I agree um that and I mean that falls on both of us and I think that we just clearly we're not prioritizing it and I wish we had lent is never going to be one of those things where I feel like you're fully satisfied at the end of it with how you there's always room to grow, yeah exactly like I.
Speaker 2:Even I remember talking to somebody who did exodus 90 um would you like to explain what that is?
Speaker 2:exodus 90 is, um, for crazy people. No, I'm just kidding it's. It's a really cool thing that I I have not been able to do myself yet. Um, I don't know if I ever will, but I have a ton of respect for people who do. It's essentially like a like a fasting challenge for 90 days, but there's a lot more to it. So it's like only cold showers. You have to work out, you know. I think it's like 30 minutes a day. Um, you have to read scripture every day. No screens, only you know christian music. I'm trying to think what else they have in there. And then you have questions that you answer and you meet with your Exodus 90 group, I want to say once a week.
Speaker 1:That's like structure galore yeah which again not up my alley it's really cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's really cool and the people who do it ultimately everybody who does it says it had a really profound impact on them. But I uh was talking to somebody who did it and they he's done it a couple times and he's like I keep doing it because every time I feel like I can do better yeah, and I think that's a really good yeah every time we get I mean we're every year.
Speaker 1:We have know that this is something to look forward to, and there's always something that you could do better at.
Speaker 2:What do you think about the idea that, ultimately, if you do something for 40 days, right, it should be habit forming, like me giving up YouTube, like I've been kicking around the idea of like, do I want to actually just try to not watch YouTube?
Speaker 1:What do I think about?
Speaker 2:that and that's not. What do you think specifically?
Speaker 1:about me not watching YouTube. More me time, less me time.
Speaker 2:The idea of what you give up for Lent. Is that something that should then just work its way into your day-to-day life? Or if you are reading scripture every day and that's what you do for Lent, maybe you should do that every day, every day.
Speaker 1:I think so. I mean, I think if you go into Lent with the right intentions, that is ultimately the goal is. Like to teach you those good habits, like Lent is not meant for you to like I've said this before. Somebody thought like oh well, god suffered, so we didn't have to suffer. Why do we have to go through Lent?
Speaker 1:Like Lent is not meant for you to suffer through, like you don't have to starve yourself every day, like that's. That should not become a habit for sure. Yeah, but I mean even something as simple as like eating a sugar. Like maybe that's just a good overall habit to have. Like some people just cut out sugar altogether. I don't think you should necessarily feel that you have to do that, but maybe just limit the sugar, like the indulgement yeah and whatever it might be like social media, youtube um sugar sugar.
Speaker 2:Um, so the. Now to the, the main meat of, I think, what you really want to talk about for the podcast. What did you get out of this lent?
Speaker 1:well, I feel like I already was like leading into that, but you were I kind of touched on like what my expectations were and I kind of want to know, before I get into what I got out of it, what were your expectations going into this? Did you have any like specific intentions? Did you? I don't know, I feel like that's a me thing, like I always like go into things with very yeah, that's a you thing intentional, yeah, you're just so, not unintentional.
Speaker 1:Did you have any expectations at all, like knowing that we had a busy season ahead? What was your like? What was your goal?
Speaker 2:that's a good. I don't think I really set myself a strong goal, and I think that's why I'm a little unhappy with how I handled this. Lent like that's fair being in I mean being in sales. I understand the importance of goal setting.
Speaker 2:Like if you go into any any like sales meeting, business meeting, pitch, the first you know something on the first page probably is about goal setting and about the importance of it and how it keeps you on track and keeps you regulated and motivated, and I think that I'm frustrated with myself that I did not set a firm goal. Again, I said, oh, here's what I'm doing, but there wasn't an expectation for me to get anything out of it, and I wish that I had done that. Ultimately, I think the unspoken goal for me in reading more and getting away from YouTube was, I think, to listen to God and to see where he's trying to speak to me and ultimately, I think I heard what he wanted me to hear, but I think I could have dove in more to it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I think we both kind of came out of this lunch feeling that way like, oh man, like I really half-heartedly went through this season yeah but I feel like we both left this season feeling like, okay, god has put this in my heart that like I didn't dive into, but I, I have the opportunity to do that now. So I guess my expectations I touched on that, how they were not met and how I felt like I was just breezing through it and I think the biggest thing is Lent is in my like, in my mind. It's a great opportunity to purify your heart and your soul. We're not perfect humans, by no means. There are things that we can get rid of and lay down at the cross.
Speaker 2:It's like getting your house ready to sell. Yeah, literally, you've got to hire the cleaners for it.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's like getting ready for heaven. It's a great time to just really focus on that.
Speaker 2:What's the verse? It was a classic CLI verse the new wine in the old wineskin.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Like we need to be lent as a time to. You know, make ourselves into a new wineskin so that we can hold the new wine.
Speaker 1:And theoretically we should be doing that every day, but the church knows that we're human and we don't think about that every day. So, like having a designated season for it is a great time to focus on that. So I always want to, you know, do that to the best of my ability. But this season it was just really like. I felt truly like we went to confession and I am by no means a perfect person, but I do enjoy going to confession and I go regularly because I find it very therapeutic and I don't want to carry on to any of that stuff. Um, but this lent specifically. I was like I I don't know what to say yeah, and I want to go, but I want to go.
Speaker 1:I not only do I want to go, but I know I need to go and I feel like this desire to go and there's something that I know I need to be purified from, but I don't know what it is and I just felt like I was missing something. I didn't know where to go with that. But I mean, we went and I think what I really left and what I got out of this season was actually it was like the week was Wednesday before Easter, I had a meeting with my spiritual director and, in the best way possible, she called me out in a way that like nobody really has called me out before and all those things that I was saying, like I hadn't been going to mass, I hadn't been doing my normal routine. But I'm going to give myself grace because God Hadn't been going to Wednesday mass.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sorry, I just want to clarify.
Speaker 1:Hadn't been going to my normal daily mass routine, like I was doing the bare minimum and I'm telling her all this, thinking like, okay, it's fine, like God isn't mad at me. And she just kind of said you're right, like God is not mad at you. By no means you should not feel, you should feel guilty about these things, but have you considered maybe the way you're feeling is God calling you back? And I was like, ooh, no, I have not, ma'am.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have not thought that I have not considered that because I didn't really want to consider that, but you're right, yes, he is. And and like in, just like the, specifically the mass, because that's always been something that, like I've been naturally drawn to. I felt like this Lent God showed me like I am, like physically present in the Eucharist and you desire to be as close to me as possible, so why not take the opportunity? And that is what I felt, like hit me when she said perhaps God is calling you back to him, because I had been avoiding that. Purify yourself and like, reflect and examine your conscience.
Speaker 1:I don't know why this like never really made sense to me before, but she just like I was going through some stuff that I was struggling with and some relationships I struggled with, which is like normal struggles that you have with friendships and family and whatnot.
Speaker 1:And she was like you're right, like this is by no means like a mortal sin, like this is not. You wouldn't consider that a sin. However, anything that keeps you from God, whether that is thoughts on somebody else that are not so nice or whatever it might be, that is clearly yeah, pride like hindering your relationship with God. If it's not bringing you closer, then it's hindering you. That's just the simple truth that needs to be like brought to God and needs to be brought to a confessional. And I don't know, I just like heard that and I just hadn't considered that, because when I go to confession I just kind of pinpoint themes and I don't really dive into like anything. But she just really encouraged me to like make an appointment with a priest and like talk through all of this to give them context and to like find freedom in that conversation rather than just like listing a theme of sins that I might've struggled with.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I like that a lot and I think that's a.
Speaker 2:I think that's a great way to think about how you experienced your Lent and to realize that there's more that you could do in being vulnerable, looking inward, like I think it's a really hard thing Sometimes we know what our problem is, like I know that you know I could, you know, try to be stronger and work out more, but that's just like the results I'm looking to get, not what actually needs to change.
Speaker 2:Right, like, here are the workouts I need to do, here are the things that I need to stop eating in order to get that six pack that I'm dying to get, and I think that Lent is a good time to do that. But I also think one of the things you said just kind of brought the the concept or idea to me that I think one of the things that at least I struggle with and I think our generation struggles with, is we were told all the time growing up, like you know, never do something halfway and never, like you know, if you're going to do something, you should only do it 100 and like I think that's a good kind of general rule, but I feel like in faith it's an awful rule, Because I think it's better to halfway attempt not halfway believe, but halfway attempt to do something that it is Consistently yeah, than to do nothing.
Speaker 2:You know like I think it's better to set a goal, you know to it's better to say say like, I'm gonna at least try and give something up for lent and fail than it is to be like oh well, like I'm gonna fail, no matter what. So who cares? Try, yeah. And like you know, it's better to go to confession if you can versus saying like well, it's not really gonna matter anyway, or like god won't forgive me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah but just well, not even that, just like I don't know I I know that. Like if somebody were to say right now to me go try and like, why don't you just go play golf, for instance? Like I am, I do want to play more golf, but part of the reason for such a long time I didn't have any interest in is like, well, I know I'm going to be bad at it, you know. So like I don't want to do something that I'm bad at.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're just so scared of failing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but ultimately, like I don't want to say you're never going to fail in religion because, or you know, with your faith, because it's kind of the opposite, like you are going to fail, that's a given, but it's, it doesn't matter, right? And I think it goes to what I got out of Lent. I'm stepping on your no, I was done. You go ahead. Like what I got out of Lent and like what I think God was trying to reach out to me was that I needed to be saved. And it really like and I'm constantly in need of being saved, and I mean you know me, like I like to be the provider.
Speaker 2:Like I like to be the caregiver, and I like to.
Speaker 1:It's not even be in charge but like I like to be the one you like to be in charge, yeah, I mean that's I guess that's true, like providing that safety, and I think this lent.
Speaker 2:What spoke to me is that the only person who can truly do that for me is god for anyone you know and for anyone.
Speaker 2:And it was never more kind of on display than the Gospel of the Passion, and it's right before Jesus dies. So this is Luke 23, 39 through 43. So this is when Jesus is up on the cross. One of the criminals who were hanged railed at him saying are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us. But the other rebuked him, saying do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation and we, indeed justly, for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds. But this man has done nothing wrong. And he said, jesus, remember me when you come into your kingly power. And he said to him truly, I say to you today you will be with me in paradise. And I don't know it.
Speaker 2:Just it stuck out to me a lot over the last I guess it would have been week or so especially since I knew, like you wanted this is kind of the topic you wanted for this podcast and just the idea that I think, constantly in our lives we're either one of those men on the cross up next to Jesus. You know, sometimes in our lives we are the man kind of mocking Jesus, you know, saying, well, why don't you save yourself? Why don't you save yourself? Why don't you save me, jesus, in the sense that you know? Why don't you use your power to make my life better, you know? Why don't you solve my problems for me? If you're supposed to be this, all loving, all powerful God, why don't you say you know? Why don't you make it all?
Speaker 1:go away, but that's not faith, that's not believing in Jesus.
Speaker 2:That's not loving Jesus, you know why? Don't you make it all go away? Yeah, but that's not faith, that's not believing in Jesus. That's not loving Jesus, you know. Yeah, that's loving the person, you know. That's just loving somebody who makes your life better.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, and that's not what this religion is about. Yet the other man, he didn't say Jesus, save me. What he said was Jesus, remember me when I come into you, know, when you come into your kingdom yeah like and I think he believed that jesus was christ right then and there on the cross yeah, at his worst moment at his worst moment, and I just think that's what we're called to do is just to ask jesus you know, please bring me into your kingdom and remember me well and like, if you compare it to the and sorry.
Speaker 2:There's no action that we have other than asking jesus.
Speaker 1:That's the only action well, I think it's beautiful that like that was the aside from the disciples, like that was the raw reaction and it came like the most beautiful raw reaction came from the prisoner who was being justly accused, whereas the week before Palm Sunday everyone's praising Jesus, he's walking through on the donkey, they're all like so excited, so pumped for the savior. And can you just imagine like this whole episode we're talking about his expectations and how we met them and how we might not have met them. That was like their expectation was this king, the savior, was going to save them, bring them righteousness and wealth and whatever their idea of saving was. And then can you imagine like the sheer disappointment they felt when they saw him being like crucified and weak and pummeled, and just like the epitome of weakness at least is what they probably thought well, yeah, and reading that book dominion.
Speaker 2:It goes into the early jewish faith and how frequently jerusalem in particular was overtaken and, you know, ransacked by all these different kingdoms and all these different warlords.
Speaker 1:So they were like oh, here we go again.
Speaker 2:Well, I think with Jesus. They thought this is going to be our new David. He is going to conquer these.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:He's going to fix our problems, he's going to save our children. And again, god doesn't think in, you know, in generations.
Speaker 1:he thinks in eternity yeah, you know, and so he's saving everyone and they simply could not think in that way yeah so like for them.
Speaker 1:It's just funny because I think that was the homily on palm sunday or maybe it was. Yeah, I think it was palm sunday and he was talking about how, like, can you imagine like feeling that kind of disappointment on what is supposed to be like the most pivotal point in our faith? You were alive and you were present there, but you were probably like we were most likely if we were there, we would be in the crowd too thinking.
Speaker 2:Bro, we'd be yelling, crucify him, crucify him.
Speaker 1:We'd be like what the heck? Like this guy promised all these things and that was like all just talk and now he's just gonna let himself die. Yeah, but I just cannot imagine like the plot twist. It's like the most epic plot twist, but the point I'm making is like they had that, that was their perspective, whereas this prisoner, who was justly crucified and killed for his actions, just in that moment found deep humility and was like save me, like I believe you and even as I'm thinking about it right now, it's asking save me in two different ways.
Speaker 2:The first man is asking save me for the selfish reasons, like I don't want to die. I don't want to die, you know, fix my problem. And the second man is asking save me as in you are Jesus Christ, I believe in you, like I need help.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know I'm going to die anyway.
Speaker 2:And it's like it's an asking, not a command. You know, the other man commanded Jesus. Why don't you save us? You know, save us and the other man on the cross.
Speaker 1:it's a it's a surrender oh, that's a great word for it. It's a complete surrender.
Speaker 2:Yes, and the other thing it makes me think about is and I don't know your take on this, actually, you know, for a long time I used to think that you know, of course hell is real, but I used to battle with the idea is you know, is hell empty? You know, because what does it look like when we die? Are we afforded some potential? You know last ditch way to receive mercy. You know God stands before us and essentially, is like you know, do you accept me? And I used to wonder, like, is it possible for somebody to in the presence of God?
Speaker 2:say no deny him and one of the things I was speaking with someone about this once, and this is what conversation was with me and John Mark, I think it was with me, and John Mark, I think it was with me, and yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah and one of the things where we both ended up thinking about was this moment of these two men on the cross and they were both dying in the true presence of God and one of them did deny him in that true presence.
Speaker 2:Gosh, that's just the reality and it's, it's just terrifying because, you know, I I wanted to believe that as humans, yes, we're super broken, but we couldn't deny him.
Speaker 1:But we can and that's why God gave us free will. I mean, think about no gift is truly a gift if you couldn't choose it, like, couldn't receive it as a gift. And so if you've spent your whole life denying this gift, what are like, how do you expect to spend the end of your life being able to finally receive it? Now, you certainly can. People can certainly have a change of heart. But yeah, no, this is by no means like a theological take or anything. This is just like genuine reflection and like pondering on a really cool topic. I was going to say something, but you distracted me with that really cool point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sorry.
Speaker 1:No, I think overall this I mean it's been a good learning curve, like we just had to get back into the groove of, you know, walking with Jesus in the busyness, which is something that we've been like so pumped for for so long and have been out of it for a while. That like it's it's a it's a cool season, like it's a joyful season that we get to um, that we get to be grateful for, and truly I. Something that's also been on my heart is that gratitude is the highest form of praise, and so I want to use that to the best of my ability.
Speaker 2:I like that.
Speaker 1:Speaking to my spiritual director about this, like well, maybe God is in the most gentle way possible. Calling you back to him made me just miss. You know how, before work, when I was working in the hospital, I would go to mass at like 7 o'clock in the morning. I do yeah, it was truly out the hospital. I would go to mass at like seven o'clock in the morning I do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was truly out of fear, yeah, I was like I don't want to go to work tonight. It's such a tough job, there's so much responsibility. I truly felt like I couldn't do it without God, and that was beautiful in itself. But now I'm craving for that same routine and that same desire to just meet him in the morning, because I think mornings are like the most beautiful quiet time.
Speaker 1:Gross it's night yeah quiet time, whatever you prefer, but my quiet time in the mornings have just been so intimate with God and I've been craving for that ever since she said that, like, yes, I know that that's what my heart needs and I need to reconvene and do that again in a joyful way, like I can't wait to do that, like I've already decided.
Speaker 1:I haven't told you this oh no you don't have to join me, but I mean it would be nice okay but like friday mornings going to like 7 am mass again and like just in thanksgiving- that's why you said you're gonna go to a 5 am bar class yeah, I've missed. I've missed my mornings, guys. I've been sleeping in and it's been great like there's no shame in sleeping in, but I've missed. I've missed my mornings, guys. I've been sleeping in and it's been great Like there's no shame in sleeping in, but I've missed.
Speaker 1:I've missed it. Yeah, so you're about to wrap it up and so I was just gonna. You're probably about to mention this to you, but I wanted to beat you to it. Okay, a big pit also that we did not mention is Pope Francis passing.
Speaker 2:Yes, very sad.
Speaker 1:This morning, today's Monday, when we're filming this or recording this. But yeah, super sad. We could probably do a whole other podcast on that, but do you? Want to do a quick comment on what his time has meant to you. Anything like that.
Speaker 2:No, I mean, I like Pope Francis.
Speaker 1:You've always been a big fan.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like the nation, spirituality and you know, I think popes, while they can be super divisive and you don't necessarily have to agree or disagree with all sorts of different policies, the one thing I can say and the reason why I loved Pope Francis so much is I think that he ultimately really just loved God and really wanted other people to love God, and I think the actions that he consistently took just not again this is more so outside of like his duties as the pope, um, it's more so just who he was as a person.
Speaker 2:You know him going out, especially early on in his papacy, and like visiting homeless shelters and food banks in in vatican city and in rome, um, with like trying basically to go against like all you, you know all this, like not a secret service, but you know, like the Swiss Guard or whoever's you know protecting him, like they're like please don't do this. And he's like no, like I'm going to do this. And I just think that he just so intensely cared for to make sure that people felt cared for and that just I don't know cared for to make sure that people felt cared for, and that just I don't know. To me it's so evident that he just very clearly loved God and wanted others to love God, and I, you know, that's the most important thing for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, absolutely. What about you? I mentioned this earlier, but he, if you don't know, he made this the jubilee year of hope. Yes, and I just see, like even before he got sick, like I've found so much fruit in this year already and I I truly believe that it's because it's the jubilee year of hope and like hope is just like a renowned resounding theme, I think, in our lives and I just, I don't know, I'm just so grateful that the timing of it all lined up when it was. Obviously I'm so sad that he passed, but I could see the beauty in how everything lined up.
Speaker 1:And I'm just really grateful for specifically this year, because I wasn't kind of detached from him, to be honest, the past few years, just because I didn't know much and wasn't as invested, but for some reason this year, like I really took a liking to it and to his, the things that he was teaching, and like I read the um bowl of indictment which is just his, his comment on the jubilee year of hope and what his hope was. And often you'll see in years like this it's only every 25 years if you're not his hope was. And often you'll see in years like this, it's only every 25 years if you're not familiar with it. But often you'll see just like little miracles, people converting to the faith, finding God, and like just a lot of beautiful things, and I just feel like I don't know. I just have a really deep gratitude for the mark that he's left on my heart in terms of hope.
Speaker 2:Shout out Pope Francis. So instead of doing a marriage meeting, there's a prayer for deceased popes and we're going to pray it. Okay, and that'll be our final prayer for the evening. So, katie, can you see this?
Speaker 1:I'm assuming you cannot. No, but I trust your words and I will bow in reverence. So I'm assuming you cannot, no, but I trust your words and I will bow in reverence.
Speaker 2:So God, who in thine ineffable providence didst will that thy servant, francis, should be numbered among the high priests, grant we beseech thee that he who on earth held the place of thine only begotten son, may be joined forevermore to the fellowship of thy holy pontiffs, through the same jesus christ, thy son, who liveth and reigneth with thee in the unity of the holy ghost. God, world without end, amen amen.
Speaker 1:All right guys. This was a really fun podcast, just like reflecting on it together on lent. We hope you had a very fruitful lent and happy easter we've got a few more days to rejoice in that, and then guess what? We get to be an Easter people forever. That's right. So yeah, have a great week. We love you guys and let's keep growing together. Bye, y'all, thank you.