The Vine with Joe & Katie Devine
As branches of the same divine Vine, we embrace the power of community and the guidance of faith, aiming to inspire and uplift our listeners as we collectively journey toward greater understanding and connection. Welcome to a space where vulnerability meets wisdom and where, together, we discover the beauty of being intertwined in the vine of life.
The Vine with Joe & Katie Devine
Preparing for Lent
Our discussion dives into the true meaning of Lent, sharing personal stories and exploring how sacrifices can lead to spiritual growth. We reflect on our childhood experiences with Lent, what we've learned over time, and how this season offers a unique opportunity for deeper connection with our faith. Our explorations emphasize the need to balance suffering and joy and engage listeners in conversations about their own Lenten journeys.
- Personal memories of Lent growing up
- Importance of sacrifice and spiritual growth
- The balance between suffering and joy during Lent
- Creative approaches to celebrating Lent today
- Conversations on guilt versus healthy conviction
- Encouragement for embracing Lent as a transformative season
As we head into this Lenten season, we encourage you to reflect on your intentions and seek ways to deepen your relationship with God.
An exclusive from Dery Media Podcasts. Explore diverse perspectives and enrich your knowledge at derymedia.com. Telling stories that matter, sparking meaningful discussions.
Hello.
Speaker 2:Yo, yo, yo, what's up.
Speaker 1:Back again.
Speaker 2:Back at it again.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the Vine.
Speaker 2:I'm Joe Devine.
Speaker 1:And I'm Katie.
Speaker 2:And we already told you what the podcast is called. It's called the Vine.
Speaker 1:I know we did that backwards, oh no.
Speaker 2:I guess we'll have to delete the whole podcast thread. It's gone forever now.
Speaker 1:Well, we're back. It is the week before lunch, what? And it's crazy that so much in life is happening at the moment.
Speaker 2:Yes, there is quite a bit going on in life. Yeah, but before we dive into that, shall we you say it.
Speaker 1:Peaks and pits, highs and lows, call it what you want.
Speaker 2:Oh, that was very rhythmic of you.
Speaker 1:You know, I've been watching the Kardashians, which, if you don't know me, is like my comfort show.
Speaker 2:Hang on, it takes Katie, I would say so they come out weekly, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, the new season.
Speaker 2:I would say it takes you the full week to watch the full episode.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I watch it in bits and pieces. It's just something that I like to slowly watch in the background. But I learned that Courtney's family around the dinner table they do Pe and pits and I was a little bit mad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they stole it from us. Clearly they're listeners.
Speaker 1:I know I mean like give me some credit.
Speaker 2:Everybody knows very devout Catholics the Kardashians searching for a podcast.
Speaker 1:I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I know we did not make peaks and pits up. That's been a thing forever, but it was just funny. I saw that and they were around the dinner table and Courtney was like all right, let's talk about our Peaks and Pits Like no joke. They're like having a family dinner. I just actually I thought it was kind of sweet. I was like, oh, that's cute.
Speaker 2:I just love your infatuation with the Kardashians.
Speaker 1:I know, I know, I know it's like, it's like me in another life. Yeah, so easily you know, it's really holds up a mirror to who we are and it actually makes me feel better about my life at some point yeah that's true, because I'm like I could have all that and still be really unhappy and like I don't need it Anyways.
Speaker 2:Very true, I just love that, like, katie's always like oh, let the new episode of the Kardashians came out, let's watch it in bed. Then I'll turn it on and literally the end credits will roll and I'll look over and she's asleep, so it's like all right, well, I'm not going to watch the Kardashians.
Speaker 1:That's like any show after like 8 o'clock, though it doesn't really matter what I'm watching. You stayed up and watched Survivor. Oh wait, no, you didn't. No, I didn't?
Speaker 2:No, you watch. I'm trying to think you'll stay up for White Lotus.
Speaker 1:No, no, it has to be like really thrilling yeah.
Speaker 2:White Lotus.
Speaker 1:I know, but there's too much, it's too complex. Like what did we just watch that, like I.
Speaker 2:There was something yeah, well, the great podcasting. We can't remember the name of the show. There was something that you watched, that you stayed it up for, I know, and I was like really invested. Now it's gonna drive me crazy.
Speaker 1:I can't remember severance no it was before severance.
Speaker 2:It was about um, oh, I don't know it was about potentially nothing.
Speaker 1:I will figure it out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she'll remember it in the show notes. Yeah, we'll talk about it, I'm sure, probably in like 15 minutes.
Speaker 1:I I was clearly not as obsessed as I thought, but like I was invested, like I was watching it while you were.
Speaker 2:Was it the Gabby Petito?
Speaker 1:No, it was that. It was way, way before Severance. Oh man, what was it?
Speaker 2:Oh, you did watch it. You watched all of it. You know what I'm talking about right.
Speaker 1:Like I watched it while you were gone. I was so invested.
Speaker 2:Ozarks.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's what it was the Ozarks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there we go, great show if you haven't watched it. I mean we listed some of the most non faith-based shows we've been watching. We love that.
Speaker 1:We're normal people. Yeah, we are, we're very normal people. Okay, let's circle back. Peaks and Pits, not Kardashian style.
Speaker 2:Not Kardashian style. Well, Tr back peaks and pits not kardashian style.
Speaker 2:Not kardashian style. Well, tristing came by. No, I'm just kidding. Um, that's a deep cut for you kardashian fans. Um, no, so I'd say a peak for me in this past week, um, work's been going really well. It's been a really solid, I'd say like two and a half, three weeks of work.
Speaker 2:Um, I've been traveling a lot for it, which is, you know, kind of, maybe even goes in with the pit, but it's been a successful few weeks at work and I think I was talking to you, katie, like I just sometimes forget that I like giving presentations. I like you know I know it sounds weird, but I really enjoy just going around and meeting new customers. This is going to sound so corporate, which I hate, but trying to provide value to the customers and develop real relationships with them when it's going well and you get to see results and you get to meet people and turn that into business, that helps everybody. There's just something very fulfilling about that and I think in your line of work you constantly see the benefits of what you're doing, especially in something like an outpatient, where, not always, but very frequently, your patients get better or you see the results of them getting better, and a lot of times I don't get to see the fruits of my labor quite as much and again like what are the real fruits of selling glue?
Speaker 2:but, um, I've just seen it and like, as I continue to know people um in the business world, it's just been fun to to get to do that. So it's been a good couple weeks at work um you just like the attention.
Speaker 2:This is very true. This is very true. That's why I married you, because you give me such good attention. My pit, that's a good one. I would say. We've been very busy the last two weeks and pit is like, maybe strong, but this is just what came to mind. Like I think I was. I was a little drained at the start of this week and then I got sick.
Speaker 1:I had to get an antibiotic. You've been sick for like two weeks.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, I had a sinus infection that I didn't know about for like 10 days and I was just kind of trying to, you know, suck it up. Pretend it wasn't happening yeah, and then my mom was like just do click this link and they'll literally give you an antibiotic. And they did, so that was really nice. Um, yeah, I would say, just like earlier this week in particular, I was pretty drained yeah and like you know, there's that feeling when you're just tired.
Speaker 2:But you know like there's a feeling of like being tired at the end of something. When you get to kind of look back and like it's kind of a good tired, You're like, oh, look at what, you know we're done, Like I get to rest and there was an accomplishment. This was the tired. That's like I'm tired and there's still a lot more to go. And like this is going to be long but it ended up being a good week, so yeah, yeah, I mean to be fair.
Speaker 1:We had a lot of company this weekend, so it was very draining. In a good way, that's part of my peak. We had some friends over while they were here looking for houses. They're moving from Tennessee, so it was just fun to have them over and our little godson, oh gosh and my parents came up too. It was kind of like an unexpected like family time. Like the friends they left went back home and then my family was here, like my whole family was here.
Speaker 1:It was really unexpected, but it was super fun, like it was a lot of fun, my sisters were here, my parents were here and, um, ally, just like randomly started looking for houses, which is like my favorite thing to do when I'm not the one buying the house yeah it's just like fun to be a bystander and like watching the excitement and she's thinking about I'm I'm saying this out loud because it's gonna happen like I'm gonna make sure it happens, all right but she's thinking about moving like five minutes from us and you know there's just like my, like big sister heart.
Speaker 1:It's like she, just she wants to be near me. She just won't admit it.
Speaker 2:But yeah, that's not you wanting her to move All signs are pointing towards she likes me. She may say yes.
Speaker 1:She wouldn't say it, but she is moving closer to me.
Speaker 2:She did ask us to hang out with her and her friends in like two weeks I know, isn't that like we're reaching a whole new level? Proud parents.
Speaker 1:So that was a lot of fun. And then my pit is kind of on the same level. We've just been really busy. We've had a lot of company and a lot has just been coming up, I think with my dad's health and so that's been really hard, is just a lot of things you know unexpected are coming up. So we're just kind of learning how to tackle that as a family.
Speaker 2:That, you know. It reminds me my mom always used to not always used to like, I think still one of her biggest things. She tells both of us I think pretty frequently one of her biggest things.
Speaker 2:She tells both of us I think pretty frequently like we would always be complaining to her about, like, how slow we felt, like kind of our life was going, and she'd always be the first one to say, like, enjoy the slow times, because it always, it always comes back around like you're always like you're gonna have these times where you feel like you're bored and nothing's going on, and then you know, wait a year or two years, and then all of a sudden, everything's happening all at once oh yeah, and I always knew that was going to happen, but it was just like the distinction was crazy.
Speaker 1:Like I can. Just I can remember distinctly the thing that I did before life got crazy, and that was buy a used espresso machine yes, yes I, I bought this machine I was like I am in such a slump. I am like life is too like. I'm just was bored. Essentially, I was like I need another hobby, like gardening isn't enough anymore, baking isn't enough, and I was like it's time to be a barista, and so I got this used espresso machine off of MacBed, which was so fun.
Speaker 2:If we had video, you would just see me shaking my head.
Speaker 1:I know he was so over it and I was like so proud of myself because I got it for a pretty good price. I made Joe drive to Spartanburg to pick it up.
Speaker 2:At 9.45 at night she said hey, you need to be in Spartanburg tomorrow from the hours of noon to one hobby and I'm gonna start learning how to master latte art.
Speaker 1:And then, literally the day after, like life took a turn. Like I hadn't touched my espresso machine for like a week, like I just learned how to use it yesterday yeah, well, no, it was like we bought it like a month ago almost I don't even know, but it's been a while but it's fun though we missed our flight to Key West.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's been all sorts of stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's been fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's very fun, All right. So today's theme or today's topic is we're going to talk about Lent.
Speaker 1:And we're just going to kind of yap about it.
Speaker 2:We're just big yappers, so we're just going to yap about Lent. So I think one of the you know, as this podcast is about, you know faith and family and the traditions and who kind of we are. Katie, what did you do for Lent growing up?
Speaker 1:How did you guys attack it? We you know. Lent, to be honest, was not like something that I really took seriously until I was maybe like a teenager, like really getting involved in my faith, so like growing up, it was really just the standard issue, like going to Ash Wednesday Mass and giving up meat on Fridays.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And maybe going to like a Friday Stations of the Cross kind of deal.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But I didn't really know what any of that meant. To be honest, I was like this is kind of depressing.
Speaker 2:So sad. Why do we do this? Why is everyone purple? But where's jesus? Why is he covered? Why is he?
Speaker 1:covered up on the crucifix, but as I kind of got older and grew into my faith, it became a really pivotal part, like something I really looked forward to. Um, just because I I felt like the growth behind, like denying yourself in a way, you know like, and I was like I'm, you know me, like I'm addicted to, like the how can I make my life as hard as possible?
Speaker 2:Yes, you are a masochist.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I took these, like I took it very seriously, like I usually like give up social media, give up sweets, of course, all the things that make life joyful, just kidding. Give up sweets, of course, all the things that make life joyful, just kidding. Yeah, um, my favorite thing that I did was I I remember I was like, you know, I I felt like lent was just a little bit too depressing and I was like how can I like lighten this up a bit and still like make that sacrifice on a daily basis? And I went through this phase where I was like doing love letter lents so every day, do you remember that?
Speaker 2:Yeah?
Speaker 1:Every day I would like leave a sticky note or something wherever I was, so like I was in college at the time, so if I went to the library every time I left, I meant I I reminded myself to leave like a note at where I was sitting. So it was like a little love letter with like a Bible verse or something on it, just a piece of encouragement all throughout the day. It's like dropping little seeds everywhere.
Speaker 2:And I. That was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:It was fun. It was a lot of work. I haven't done it in a while, but I don't know. That was kind of like the evolution of my Lenten experience. How about you?
Speaker 2:I love that and I realized we should probably at least talk about Lent a little bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, beforehand. That's on me, um, but so on you I know it's all on me, um, they're probably familiar with it I feel like, of all the things that we celebrate, the world like knows lent, most people know I mean it's very similar to something like, you know, ramadan or um, yom, kippur, like any of the other religious holidays that are like expand over time, where people are like at least aware of what's going on.
Speaker 2:But you know, it's meant to represent the 40 days that Jesus was in the desert, the temptations and everything as we prepare for the passion right and his resurrection. So oftentimes it's meant to be a time of reflection, aestheticism. Most people give something up, um, most people give something up. That's kind of like the you know, I don't know the the social way of practicing it, I guess, is recommended to give something up and then you don't eat meat on fridays. There's, like you know, a million other things that you know are good to do.
Speaker 2:Growing up, I would say we had like two, two like pretty solid traditions I felt like we did all the time. So the first one is we gave up TV and it worked great. I think when, you know, my siblings were older because, they excuse me, when my siblings were younger and still lived at home and we had like a full house, it made sense, like you know, no TV, we could read, do homework, play board games together, but it was more about just like coming together as a family. As I grew older, the house was just me and my mom and it could get pretty boring sometimes. I remember and I used to watch TV all the time and it was definitely it was me and I knew it was I just want to watch tv and my mom was like no, we have to do something.
Speaker 2:So we played a lot of backgammon, um I learned that and then, uh, for some reason I don't know why I was probably just being so annoying the one channel she would let me watch is the weather channel.
Speaker 1:So I would just watch the oh I would.
Speaker 2:I would go hard in on the weather channel.
Speaker 1:You were that bored yeah.
Speaker 2:I was that bored and eventually through the years I think in high school I think my mom was finally like okay, if you want to give something else up, we'll talk about it, but you don't have to give up TV, or maybe just give up TV on these, like certain, certain times. The other thing we did every Friday and I just it's like just a, it wasn't like a set tradition, we just did it every Friday Pizza Hut thin crust cheese pizza every Friday, because you're not even meeting on Friday and my parents both like the thin crust and so we would always get Pizza Hut cheese pizza from the Pizza Hut in Chapin.
Speaker 1:That's so funny.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know why, it's just like very vivid in my head, like every Friday in Lent. That's what we were munching on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, and I think, like you said Lent is typically known as a holiday season that you give up something.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But something that I feel like I'm growing up, we really honed in on was like it's not just about giving up something, but it's also about like I don't know, there's a special acronym for it Like praying, like devoting your time to prayer. Um, uh, giving up fasting and um, what's the other one offering? Is that it?
Speaker 1:no, I'm thanksgiving thanksgiving supplication I don't know, but basically it's like it's like devoting yourself to something that you were like reading in prayer, so a lot of the times, like I'd find like a devotion that I was really interested in, and then also, um, picking something to give up and then also picking something to give up and then also picking something to. I don't know why I'm blanking on this. Something to I expected you to know what I was trying to say.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry I failed you. Ultimately, though, what you're getting at is this idea of it's not just a time of aestheticism right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a very well-rounded, balanced season. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think that's growing up, especially growing up. Catholic Lent feels like a time where you're meant to be just kind of to your point earlier, bummed or kind of sad. The church feels a little more somber. You know the things you're giving up, but we're not called to be a somber people.
Speaker 2:You know there's the famous verse and I unfortunately don't have it in front of me, but the verse where it talks about you know, don't be like the Pharisees who, when they fast, you know, they're basically going around telling people like, oh my goodness, I'm so hungry you know, because I haven't eaten, sacrificing so much.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm so holy and I feel like you know they were called to. You know, when you fast, you know, make sure you wash your face, make sure you look clean when you pray. Don't pray in the streets, pray in your inner room, right, you know, don't be pious about it, like that was one of the things I remember I used to do all the time too, growing up, so that I'd be like, oh well, you know.
Speaker 1:Oh, you're giving up chocolate, oh, I'm giving up TV you know, and I used to say that all the time I'm better than you yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think that you know that defeats the purpose right, because ultimately the reason we are sacrificing is to grow closer to God and grow closer to Jesus and to be more aligned with what he felt like when he was going through that time of temptation.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know and I think that that's an easy thing to forget that we're doing this to you know it feels like, oh well, this is not meant to be penitential ultimately. You know what I mean when I say this. It's not meant to be something that, oh well, because you gave up, you know, chocolate, or you gave up beer, or you gave up whatever, well then, you are given more forgiveness. That's not how this works. The reason you're doing this is to align yourself more to Christ.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not like this season that God requires of us to remind us how small we are. It's more of reminding us of how much we need him. Yes, we are small, but that is what he is here for. Yes, 100%. And I think that throughout our life there are going to be seasons of suffering that we do not choose for ourselves, and it's learning. Lent is a beautiful time to learn how to suffer well.
Speaker 2:Oh, I like that Suffer well.
Speaker 1:And it's not even truly, it's not. Suffering Is giving up TV. The worst thing in the world Is giving up chocolate the worst thing in the world?
Speaker 1:No, it's not. And I remember distinctly having a conversation with somebody growing up, distinctly having a conversation with somebody growing up and she was like I don't practice Lent because I don't believe that God wants us to suffer. Why would he want that for us? And I was so stumped because I was like I agree with you. I don't really know how to defend myself in this moment. But then I realized over the years this is not suffering. There are times in my life that is true suffering and it's going to be hard and totally out of my control. But Lent is a time for me to remind myself like okay, just by simply denying the things that I want, because in this world we can easily get whatever we want at like just snapping your fingers and it's there. Like it is so easy.
Speaker 2:Think about Amazon.
Speaker 1:Yeah, buy now you literally, it's six clicks less than that, probably to just buy anything, exactly anything exactly, and so it's like this time is just a reminder of like, okay, like I am not of this world and I'm going to deny the little things that like I don't really't really need because I don't need them.
Speaker 2:No, 100%, and I think there's I remember reading a couple different reflections have had this kind of similar theme where, ultimately, you know, as Christians we are called to be Christ-like right. Yeah, we are called to emulate the life that Christ lived. If we are only living a life where we are, you know, if we're not living with Christ in his sufferings and sorrows, then we're not living a fully Christ-like life.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Ultimately, like you know, we have to celebrate in the joys that Christ had the happiness, but we're also called to live his sufferings as well. You know not the full breadth of it, of course, like we can't take on the you know the sins of man, but we are called to try our best to, you know, walk in the similar footsteps as him.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I feel like one of the most beautiful things that happen. When you allow yourself some of that suffering or some of that aestheticism, you walk in a different, you see a different side of Christ. You see the side of him that was human and you get a chance to experience him in a different way. And who knows how Christ is trying to speak to you like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what I think we can't fully experience the Easter joy without experiencing the suffering of his passion.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's a great point. I really like that.
Speaker 1:People who skip out on Lent or don't really acknowledge it. Easter is just another holiday, but by fully partaking in what the church offers during Lent makes you really realize the true sacrifice and the joy that comes with this resurrection, and I think that's why I love like this season so much.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you love, you love a good like suffering into a happy ending.
Speaker 1:Well, because that's the truth, like there's always. I don't know if you agree with this, but I feel like there's always a happy ending. Like I was just reading this quote in my journal and it says everything is going to be okay and if it's not okay, it's not the end.
Speaker 2:What are your thoughts? What are my thoughts on that? Well, well, this is one of the few times where I think I'm.
Speaker 1:I don't have a ready answer for you because I think, I agree, we don't need to discuss it right now. Well, no, I like that.
Speaker 2:I mean, ultimately, I think that this story, if you're if you're a true believer in christ and a believer in you know, in a just and merciful God, I think that that's probably a fair thing to say, that in general, yes, there's always a happy ending. I feel like sometimes people don't accept their happy end. They don't, no, they run away from it a little bit.
Speaker 1:That's why, like I said back to you, need the suffering to fully appreciate the joy. And if somebody's denying, like the things that they're going through, how can they fully embrace the joy that comes with it? You know?
Speaker 2:that's true. This is a very deep subject. I feel like this is a good, a good episode, like we could probably have a full episode on this if we do a little research. I think it's relevant, though for sure anyways and I think what you said there is accepting.
Speaker 2:If you don't accept the hardships that you're in, like, if you're not you know, accepting reality honestly, and I think that that's one of the interesting things I think about, especially faith right now, is that a lot of the arguments for faith are becoming and I think this is a good thing are becoming sometimes a little less spiritual and a little more reality-based. Like look at the world, look at what's going on, like think about how weird it is that we exist. If you think about Occam's razor, it's a little bit. It's more likely that we were created by somebody who loves us than it is that we're just some. You know one one billionth of a percent chance that you know the earth wasn't, you know, 200 miles further away from the sun, so we were too cold to develop life and we just would have become more. You know, like all these crazy things, like it's.
Speaker 1:My brain can't even like go down that route.
Speaker 2:I know, I know like it's it's sometimes to me it's more logical to think like well, of course there's a creator of the universe, like look at how crazy it is that we exist yeah, yeah um, but anyway, that's for.
Speaker 1:That's for another podcast well, I I guess I brought that up just because I feel like this season is proof that, like there is a light at the end of a tunnel, yes, and I think, and that's a great point, and I think that, again, the journey to be able to walk to that light is very important. You can't, you can't fast pass it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like you have to go right through it. You can't go around it Like life is going to be hard, you're going to fail, you are going to suffer and knowing that God, that Jesus himself, suffered with you through everything, like he knows your deepest sufferings and he has felt that same pain, he sweat blood.
Speaker 2:He was so stressed, could you imagine?
Speaker 1:stress. Could you imagine like you are not walking this walk alone, and I think that it's it breaks my heart that there are people out there that feel like they are walking it totally alone and like I don't know. I just think that this is a really great season to like bring those people in and not like isolate yourself, like yes, it's all about, it's about your individual faith, and I think that that's a beautiful thing. I think you have to focus on your sins, your struggles, um, and purify those things before you can really reach out to other people. Because I think we're in a world where, like, we're so quick to pick out other, critique other people's problems and not look inward. Yeah, but I think, ultimately, while this season is an individual experience, like we can welcome others into that experience too, like we we need to share it with people as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I, I think that's a, that's a great point because it's very healing yeah, and and ultimately, like you think about the, there's a reason that the church picks this season to do their confirmations and, like, welcome people into the church.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I also want to say I think that there's this, um, there's this feeling of like guilt around this season. Would you agree?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Like a lot of shame and guilt and I find it so funny every year I always see like people that I don't normally see going to like Ash Wednesday Mass you know which is so fun which is so funny to me.
Speaker 2:They go to Christmas Mass, they go to Easter Mass and they'll go to Ash Wednesday, which is not a holy day of obligation and I think about that and I'm like, I think it's like the guilty, it's like the guilt of like I'm Catholic I should be, partaking in this and it's like I think it's like the guilty, it's like the guilt of like I'm Catholic.
Speaker 1:I should be partaking in this and it's like I just want to like totally eradicate that like feeling like that is there's yes there should be no guilt involved with this season. This season should be just about, like your desire to be closer to God, or yeah, it's not this thing I need to do, because I feel guilty and this is a season about sin.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say I do think guilt is important in the sense that I think there's a different word for it.
Speaker 1:I think it's conviction, and that is a healthy alternative to guilt. I don't think God wants us to be guilty.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'll agree with that. I do like, but I think that ultimately people, if they're just coming back to church or they're not super involved in their faith, it's really hard to distinguish those two.
Speaker 1:For sure, I guess. I just don't like the stereotype of Catholic guilt, because I don't think that's a healthy approach to faith.
Speaker 2:Well, no, yeah, I agree, and I think the term Catholic guilt is, of course every Catholic would kind of disagree with it in the sense that it is, I don't know, derogatory is a very strong word. But you know it's like a term where everybody's like, okay, yeah, we get it Like, you know you feel guilty because you know your parents raised you Catholic or whatever. But I think that to me it's a little bit like pain, where it's a good motivator.
Speaker 2:Like the guilt is to your point, is it's convicting you to move, to act right? Um, but I I agree. I think it's one of those things that's dangerous. Where you can, the guilt can become your faith, or it can become the reason, and that shouldn't be the reason. It should be a motivating factor.
Speaker 1:But not the sole basis yeah, yeah, I guess I'm just passionate about it because I struggled a lot with like guilt versus conviction.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And I'm just a naturally guilty person Like somebody could be getting in trouble on the other side of the room and I would like be like what did I do?
Speaker 1:I'm so sorry Like somebody else could be getting yelled at and I would be like surely I did something to provoke this from happening getting yelled at. And I would be like surely I did something to provoke this from happening. And so I just I've really struggled with guilt and I just get really passionate about it because over the years I've really prayed about like how do I determine the difference between conviction and guilt? And I think I've just learned, like guilt will stir feelings of like, oh, you are not worthy, like you weren't, you don't even go to Sunday mass, like you don't. When was the last time you went to confession? Like those feelings of like, oh, you are not worthy.
Speaker 1:Like you don't even go to Sunday Mass, like you don't. Yeah, when was the last time you went to confession? Like those feelings of like, oh, like really you think that you can come show up here at Ash Wednesday Mass and be forgiven, whereas conviction is like wow, like I want to be better, like I know I'm not there, that's true. But like I want to be here Like just like that different. I don't know that different perspective can really change things and I just really want that for people.
Speaker 2:No, I and ultimately like that's. I have to stop saying that. I have to stop saying ultimately.
Speaker 1:And ultimately, like here's a following statement that's supposed to be very profound yeah.
Speaker 2:Here's why you should listen to me and what I'm about to say and not Katie. No, so I I agree with you, and I think the most dangerous thing about guilt is that it does lean into self-loathing or a feeling of not being good enough, and that is not a feeling from Christ. No, absolutely not, that is not a feeling of God, and that is not something God wishes you to feel.
Speaker 1:Let's just cancel that feeling.
Speaker 2:Yeah, nix it.
Speaker 1:We're canceling it right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's canceled. Did you see that tweet from like 20 years ago about it? Cancel it, man, yeah. So what are you going to do for Lent this year?
Speaker 1:To be honest, I was hoping to process that right now with you oh great. But I do know I want to read this devotional by Sister Josephine. I think it's called Walking Wilderness.
Speaker 2:By the way, if you don't know who Sister Josephine is, figure it out, because she's awesome.
Speaker 1:She's got a podcast too. It's called Hope Stories, and it is incredible. I think it is called hope stories and it is incredible, um.
Speaker 2:I think it is called walking wilderness. Oh wait, hold on. Wilderness within, wilderness within. You had the ww.
Speaker 1:I know I couldn't remember it, but um, yeah, I purchased that, and every year I always do this I purchase something too late and it won't come here till, like, the day after ash, wednesday, but that's okay yeah, two days in one um, so I'm really excited about that. I haven't figured out what I want to sacrifice or give up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so one of the things we did at youth group and I think we'll see how it goes. I'm hoping it goes well is. I had the kids think about it, and so they're giving up something, they are adding something and they're praying for one person in particular. Um, and actually you weren't down there, but I had. I had somebody ask me can I pray for multiple people?
Speaker 2:and I said, well, of course, like I'm not gonna limit the amount of things, but I said like, spend your time to really focus on you know one person I was like, or you know, if it's your grandparents, you know, sure, pray for both of your grandparents. But like, focus and be really intentional because, especially right now, um, during the time of lent, like you know, the grace that can be given, um and received just with some really really intentional prayer, I think was really cool, and so the kids responded really well to it. And so at the end of every youth group, we're going to pray a decade of the rosary for all of the intentions, and I have all their little lists. And after Easter we're going to, you know, I don't know, we'll do something, we'll burn them or something, I don't know, but I think it's just, it's neat and I think there's it's cool to be targeted and specific. So I'll, I'm going to do those three things.
Speaker 2:So, I will tell you first I'm going to give up YouTube.
Speaker 1:Always.
Speaker 2:Always. Well, I go back and forth, sometimes I do beer. I go back and forth, sometimes I do beer, sometimes I do YouTube.
Speaker 1:Why not beer this year?
Speaker 2:Well, um, it's good. And that is why I've decided to keep beer in the rotation. And I'm you know, I've been drinking less, not that I was drinking too much but I've already been drinking. We have decided no alcohol in the house, yeah, so occasionally there will be alcohol in the house, but Katie's looking at me angrily.
Speaker 2:I am, and then so I'm giving up YouTube just because I feel like that's where I'm spending a lot of my time and that's what I want to focus on right now. And then I will say that my adding is I'm going to try and read a book in Lent. Now, it's not a devotional, but we experience growing through our faith, I think, in different ways especially. I would say one of the biggest differences is what we like to read. You like to read more devotionals. I really like to read more either thought-provoking or history-type stuff about the church. So I bought a book called Dominion which is about.
Speaker 1:I saw that it looked like a pretty heavy read.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not a light read, but it's basically about how Christian philosophy has still, to this day, is like the leading belief system, even for people who would be consider themselves staunch atheists. Yeah, like the principles that they preach are most likely tied to principles that are rooted in Christian philosophy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like that. You can give me a SparkNotes version of it when you're done.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it'll probably, I don't know. The book's like 500, 600 pages, so we'll see and then I'm going to keep my purse to myself.
Speaker 1:Is it me?
Speaker 2:No, it's not you, but I have a person in mind. So that's what I'm doing for Lent.
Speaker 1:Okay, I like that. You're definitely well more thought out than I was. I think. Full transparency. Last Lent around this time was a really tough time for us and I did not. I think I gave myself permission to align, like the sufferings that we were going through and, for perspective, we were like deep in doctor's appointments, fertility appointments. I was like prepping for a surgery.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we were.
Speaker 1:It's what it's february. Yeah, like we were just getting this journey started?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I guess so, and, like I had just been told I needed surgery, it was just a lot, and I gave myself permission and I'm telling you this because, if you are in this place, I'm giving you permission, not that you need my permission, but I gave myself permission to Do you have authority within the church. No, I don't. I decided I was going to offer up all that suffering from, like that was my Lenten journey, and I just think I couldn't handle anything extra, like it was just so much, and so it's been a while since I haven't really you know, I haven't really decided to give anything up specifically. I think social media, though, might be where I'm leaning towards. That's a good one, because I feel like I spend a lot of like, mindless time on there.
Speaker 2:I talk about her all the time. But you know, and I've told you this a million times, but a couple years my mom has done something different every day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I like that. I've tried that, but like I'm not disciplined enough to like think about it. Every day every single action that I do. So, like your mom always used to say, like, oh, I go to Chick-fil-A and instead of getting Chick-fil-A sauce, like I just wouldn't get any sauce, and I think that's such a great idea, but I, like, would forget to do that every single time.
Speaker 2:I'll take 11 Chick-fil-A sauces, thank you.
Speaker 1:And then I'd be like, oops, but I already have them. I can't waste them waste.
Speaker 2:Well, maybe for our next episode you can have a firmed up.
Speaker 1:You know, we can let the people know yeah, but for sure I'll be reading that devotional, which I'm really excited about, because I haven't done that in a while and I just really want to redeem my experience from last year one of the kids in uh youth group.
Speaker 2:He said uh, I said to add something. And I was like you know you could maybe do the dishes or you know, um, you know pray with your siblings more, just something to add something. And I was like you know you could maybe do the dishes or, you know, pray with your siblings more, just something to add. And one of the kids and you'll know exactly who this is he raised his hand, he goes, but I already do chores around the house. And I was like, okay, well, do something else or do more. He was like I don't want to.
Speaker 1:Same. Yeah, I do. I did think of something, something I think I have gotten out of the habit of spending like quiet time in the morning, like I've really have you really I've been sleeping in like no other, um, but I think now that it's getting like sunnier sooner, earlier, like the sun is rising earlier, it'll motivate me more to get up.
Speaker 2:Hello, my little morning butterflies I see you every morning when you wake up yeah.
Speaker 1:So I really want to get back into the habit of waking up early and like spending that quiet time, especially because life is so busy now and um joe's literally squirming in his chair right now.
Speaker 2:He will not stop moving yeah, I, I'm sorry, I don't think anybody can hear it. No but it's distracting me. Just don't look at me.
Speaker 1:But everything is going to get crazy. I feel like it's really all the more important to just really center myself and spend that time with God.
Speaker 2:That's a good point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but we'll figure out something more solid next time.
Speaker 2:Katie, what's our marriage meeting today?
Speaker 1:Ooh okay. So I've seen a couple of people do this as like full podcast episodes, and I don't think we're equipped to do that, but Absolutely not. I'm sure you're familiar with that trend, that is, we listen and we don't judge, and so this is our little segment on we listen and we don't judge. And so this is our little segment on we listen and we don't judge, and I've been actually really struggling to come up with things.
Speaker 2:Probably because I feel like you just tell me everything. All right, I've got my first one for you.
Speaker 1:Okay, ready, we listen and we don't judge.
Speaker 2:Sometimes I knowingly throw out things in the fridge that I don't want you to eat, or it's old leftovers. And I tell you that I didn't realize what I was doing.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, no, no. I knew you did that. You straight up tell me you do that. You cannot lie.
Speaker 2:Well, this is sometimes. Sometimes I've lied more often than others.
Speaker 1:Sometimes like I do not encourage, nor do I endorse lying. But sometimes I'm like Joe, you don't have to tell me Like, do you realize that it's actually doing more damage, now that I'm aware that you're throwing out things?
Speaker 2:This segment was your idea.
Speaker 1:I know we listen and we don't judge. I'm not judging.
Speaker 2:Yeah. What happened to the whole theme of this segment?
Speaker 1:Okay, ready, yeah what happened to the whole theme of this segment? Okay, ready, yeah, your turn. We listen and we don't judge. Sometimes, when I'm really annoyed with you, I will go for a really long run, like all day.
Speaker 2:Is that why?
Speaker 1:And to add to that when I need things down around the house because you know there's a good chance that I'll do.
Speaker 2:I'll do them if you're gone yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I feel like I'm gonna run like maybe 10 miles. You think you could do this, this and that and stop talking to me for at least four hours, wow wow we listen and we don't judge.
Speaker 2:I like that one, um, you like it, that one's funny, all right, uh, so we listen and we don't judge. Okay, you didn't say it, that's fine, that's fine, katie's whole idea you're on your own, she's judging me she's not repeating it with me. Um this, now this is kind of a stolen one, but I, if I am also trying to get away from you, I will go sit in the bathroom for like 30 minutes on my phone. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:So I think I knew that or like if I'm at, like a, if we're, you know, around people, and sometimes I just need a detox our house is getting smaller and smaller.
Speaker 1:It feels like it's like no place to hide.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but our bathroom.
Speaker 1:What a sanctuary we listen and we don't judge. Sometimes I will. If I frown enough, I will will get sad. And I do it on purpose Because I know I think you've trained me since, like the early, early years of us dating.
Speaker 2:You're not a dog.
Speaker 1:No, but you've like Pavlov's. What is it?
Speaker 2:Pavlov's dog.
Speaker 1:I just know that if I get sad, I will get your attention. Oh my gosh, I know we listen and we don't judge.
Speaker 2:Alright, that's all I have. That's all I have too the funny thing is we probably knew all of these things about each other we just don't admit them, except for you.
Speaker 1:You just tell me.
Speaker 2:I mean, I know, you make yourself upset sometimes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, this was a fun episode. You're probably listening to this Monday. So it's almost Lent, almost Ash Wednesday. We hope you have a very fruitful Lenten season and, as always, let's keep growing together.
Speaker 2:Bye guys, ways, let's keep growing together. Bye guys, thank you.